|
|
Post by swissgas on Feb 29, 2024 23:58:49 GMT
According to Gaschat reports of the meeting tonight Abdullatif has told Gasheads that £30 - 35 million is going to be spent on infrastructure projects and they are hoping that 30 to 40% of this will be funded by 36/37 houses at the Quarters.
Which means the sale of part of the land there is expected to raise about £ 11 million.
If the average size of a building plot is one tenth of an acre then 36 houses would take 3.6 acres which is roughly the area taken up by our two training pitches.
Three obvious questions arise from this :
1. Is land at Almondsbury worth £ 3 million per acre ?
2. If 3.6 acres of good level land is taken away is there enough left for replacement pitches, additional pitches, an indoor pitch and the new buildings we’ve been told about ?
3. Since the land in question isn’t even zoned for housing and the process of getting it zoned could take many years how does this fit with the three year timescale we’ve been given ?
|
|
|
|
Post by laughinggas on Mar 1, 2024 8:26:22 GMT
There is a quote that states we are currently using 5 acres out of 30.
Another quote is 13 pitches to be added.
|
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 8:26:46 GMT
I was there last night. It was a good meeting in all. Abdullatif was happy to chuck TG under the bus for his previous operational mistakes and it appears hes become a bit of a PA rather than a CEO.
It was me who questioned him on the finance side of his model for the club. My questions were how were the stands going to be funded at the ground, the training ground built/remodelled to Cat 1 status?
His reply was a mixture of selling some land at The Quarters, investments from established partners and the owners own pockets. He said that his family have very good relationships with banks through their previous projects for low rates of interest on any monies borrowed.
He stated the The Quarters is around 30 acres in size of which only 5 is currently in use. The plan is to sell around 5 acres for housing to fund the Cat 1 academy. I asked how much he expected to raise (3 times!) from that to go towards the project? He said it would be around £8m.
I also asked him if the money spent was going to go on the clubs balance sheet as debt or is it gifted by the owners with the debt capitalised and he dodged that question. He was insistant that infrastructure was the key to building us as a ready made PL club which is sustainable in the championship. My impression is that The stadium is what is important to the 3 year model, EG, start building next year with the hope to be there by the time the stand is completed with the TG a much longer and larger project.
I also detected that if they go get to the championship with the infrastucture built it is where these owners will exit and get their money back. Just my opinion, but thats my impression.
|
|
|
|
Post by laughinggas on Mar 1, 2024 8:38:13 GMT
Assume TG is training ground not Mr Orange. Though some may say he is a project.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,601 
|
Post by eppinggas on Mar 1, 2024 9:03:18 GMT
I was there last night. It was a good meeting in all. Abdullatif was happy to chuck TG under the bus for his previous operational mistakes and it appears hes become a bit of a PA rather than a CEO. It was me who questioned him on the finance side of his model for the club. My questions were how were the stands going to be funded at the ground, the training ground built/remodelled to Cat 1 status? His reply was a mixture of selling some land at The Quarters, investments from established partners and the owners own pockets. He said that his family have very good relationships with banks through their previous projects for low rates of interest on any monies borrowed. He stated the The Quarters is around 30 acres in size of which only 5 is currently in use. The plan is to sell around 5 acres for housing to fund the Cat 1 academy. I asked how much he expected to raise (3 times!) from that to go towards the project? He said it would be around £8m. I also asked him if the money spent was going to go on the clubs balance sheet as debt or is it gifted by the owners with the debt capitalised and he dodged that question. He was insistant that infrastructure was the key to building us as a ready made PL club which is sustainable in the championship. My impression is that The stadium is what is important to the 3 year model, EG, start building next year with the hope to be there by the time the stand is completed with the TG a much longer and larger project. I also detected that if they go get to the championship with the infrastucture built it is where these owners will exit and get their money back. Just my opinion, but thats my impression. Thanks for the feedback ITB, and thanks for asking the 'difficult' questions. This meeting - was it out of the blue? A few questions if you have time - who was invited? what was the agenda? where was it? how long did it last? who were the key speakers? From the brief resume (which is appreciated) my main issue is that there isn't enough detail to draw any concrete conclusions, if any. On the face of it the money / investment doesn't add up and the 3 year time-line is at best 'aspirational', at worst delusional. Around £10mil of the infrastructure to come from the sale of houses at the Quarters. The Planning process in South Gloucestershire must move at lightening speed. As ever, cynical Bar Steward. As ever, wold be delighted to be proved wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 9:08:12 GMT
Another quote is 13 pitches to be added. That was a joke that some have taken literally because 13 is an unlucky number. |
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 9:19:06 GMT
I was there last night. It was a good meeting in all. Abdullatif was happy to chuck TG under the bus for his previous operational mistakes and it appears hes become a bit of a PA rather than a CEO. It was me who questioned him on the finance side of his model for the club. My questions were how were the stands going to be funded at the ground, the training ground built/remodelled to Cat 1 status? His reply was a mixture of selling some land at The Quarters, investments from established partners and the owners own pockets. He said that his family have very good relationships with banks through their previous projects for low rates of interest on any monies borrowed. He stated the The Quarters is around 30 acres in size of which only 5 is currently in use. The plan is to sell around 5 acres for housing to fund the Cat 1 academy. I asked how much he expected to raise (3 times!) from that to go towards the project? He said it would be around £8m. I also asked him if the money spent was going to go on the clubs balance sheet as debt or is it gifted by the owners with the debt capitalised and he dodged that question. He was insistant that infrastructure was the key to building us as a ready made PL club which is sustainable in the championship. My impression is that The stadium is what is important to the 3 year model, EG, start building next year with the hope to be there by the time the stand is completed with the TG a much longer and larger project. I also detected that if they go get to the championship with the infrastucture built it is where these owners will exit and get their money back. Just my opinion, but thats my impression. Thanks for the feedback ITB, and thanks for asking the 'difficult' questions. This meeting - was it out of the blue? A few questions if you have time - who was invited? what was the agenda? where was it? how long did it last? who were the key speakers? From the brief resume (which is appreciated) my main issue is that there isn't enough detail to draw any concrete conclusions, if any. On the face of it the money / investment doesn't add up and the 3 year time-line is at best 'aspirational', at worst delusional. Around £10mil of the infrastructure to come from the sale of houses at the Quarters. The Planning process in South Gloucestershire must move at lightening speed. As ever, cynical Bar Steward. As ever, wold be delighted to be proved wrong. It was arranged by the SC. It was advertised for weeks, im surprised you didnt see it? It was fully sold out with about 200 people there. If you wanted to ask a question, you saw Lance Cook and he put your name down and then came to you in turn. None of the questions were pre-planned from the audience, it was all ad-hoc and honestly, a well arranged evening with mutual respect from the floor. As I said above, the Quarters is a long term vision which isnt related to wanting to get to the championship in 3 years. The stadium is priority number 1 it seems as that relates directly to fans and improving the fan experience. I certainly detect a degree of planning from the AS not seen previously. |
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,601
|
Post by eppinggas on Mar 1, 2024 9:55:26 GMT
Thanks for the feedback ITB, and thanks for asking the 'difficult' questions. This meeting - was it out of the blue? A few questions if you have time - who was invited? what was the agenda? where was it? how long did it last? who were the key speakers? From the brief resume (which is appreciated) my main issue is that there isn't enough detail to draw any concrete conclusions, if any. On the face of it the money / investment doesn't add up and the 3 year time-line is at best 'aspirational', at worst delusional. Around £10mil of the infrastructure to come from the sale of houses at the Quarters. The Planning process in South Gloucestershire must move at lightening speed. As ever, cynical Bar Steward. As ever, wold be delighted to be proved wrong. It was arranged by the SC. It was advertised for weeks, im surprised you didnt see it? It was fully sold out with about 200 people there. If you wanted to ask a question, you saw Lance Cook and he put your name down and then came to you in turn. None of the questions were pre-planned from the audience, it was all ad-hoc and honestly, a well arranged evening with mutual respect from the floor. As I said above, the Quarters is a long term vision which isnt related to wanting to get to the championship in 3 years. The stadium is priority number 1 it seems as that relates directly to fans and improving the fan experience. I certainly detect a degree of planning from the AS not seen previously. Thanks for the feedback. I don't see anything from the Essex/Herts borders. I very rarely check the main site or evil post... Sounds like a decent meeting and improved transparency and communication is to be applauded. I'm still perplexed how the residential development at the Quarters will help provide the finance for the infrastructure (ie stadium build) to propel Rovers into the championship in 3 years. In defence of Abdullatif - he probably had to put a date on his objective to pacify the rabble. Still sounds incredibly optimistic to me. Hey, if takes 7 years and is done in a way which doesn't saddle the Club with debt and leaves us sustainable - that would be brilliant. UTG & UNVEU |
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 11:04:10 GMT
My mistake.
I thought you still got down for games etc.
The training ground land sale would be nothing to do with the stadium improvements, that has to be paid for by the owners and financed through partners/banks.
The sale for housing purely goes towards the TG development. Or that's how I took the information last night.
As a side note, I did find out afterwards that the loan on the South Stand is £1.6m not £5m which is what I was initially told. The rates weren't confirmed but when I asked if it was at an exorbitant rate I was assured it was not and it was low cost borrowing.
|
|
bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 406
|
Post by bondigas on Mar 1, 2024 11:58:41 GMT
Now this is getting confusing, didn't Abdullatif last night say the loan was £3 million due to extra costs incurred by penal payments that had to be made to BCC following the reckless approach to the south stand planning. Or has the club had to make up and pay the difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 13:01:06 GMT
Now this is getting confusing, didn't Abdullatif last night say the loan was £3 million due to extra costs incurred by penal payments that had to be made to BCC following the reckless approach to the south stand planning. Or has the club had to make up and pay the difference. No he said the cost of the South was greater than the £1.6m budgeted for up to £3.2 I think. I had confirmation of the loan after the meeting had concluded. I was going to ask it originally when I had the mic but I ran out of time. |
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 13:04:44 GMT
Other good things to come from the meeting was I was able to meet a couple of forumers for the first time who came and introduced themselves, especially the highly esteemed John M! Good to meet everyone.
|
|
trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,544
|
Post by trymer on Mar 1, 2024 14:30:02 GMT
The training ground is in the 'green belt' and as I far as I know houses wouldnt get planning permission ? I know that there has been talk for years that could change but if that was likely the previous owners would have hung on to it ?
Would there be enough of an access road for housing ?
|
|
|
|
Post by lostinspace on Mar 1, 2024 14:47:39 GMT
The training ground is in the 'green belt' and as I far as I know houses wouldnt get planning permission ? I know that there has been talk for years that could change but if that was likely the previous owners would have hung on to it ? Would there be enough of an access road for housing ? I would imagine that with the focus on the up coming GE, and housing ( or the apparent lack of)this is a possible place for the local council to ease the need in their area, there have been best part of 500 built in the Cheddar area over the last 3 years, two sites are nearing completion the other is almost halfway through it's two stage development) where land is being made available for prospective development then an opportunity like this would be taken up, all councils are under pressure to reach a specific number of dwellings,this COULD be where the owners get the readies to achieve what they are after at the TG |
|
|
|
Post by swissgas on Mar 1, 2024 14:57:49 GMT
I was there last night. It was a good meeting in all. Abdullatif was happy to chuck TG under the bus for his previous operational mistakes and it appears hes become a bit of a PA rather than a CEO. It was me who questioned him on the finance side of his model for the club. My questions were how were the stands going to be funded at the ground, the training ground built/remodelled to Cat 1 status? His reply was a mixture of selling some land at The Quarters, investments from established partners and the owners own pockets. He said that his family have very good relationships with banks through their previous projects for low rates of interest on any monies borrowed. He stated the The Quarters is around 30 acres in size of which only 5 is currently in use. The plan is to sell around 5 acres for housing to fund the Cat 1 academy. I asked how much he expected to raise (3 times!) from that to go towards the project? He said it would be around £8m. I also asked him if the money spent was going to go on the clubs balance sheet as debt or is it gifted by the owners with the debt capitalised and he dodged that question. He was insistant that infrastructure was the key to building us as a ready made PL club which is sustainable in the championship. My impression is that The stadium is what is important to the 3 year model, EG, start building next year with the hope to be there by the time the stand is completed with the TG a much longer and larger project. I also detected that if they go get to the championship with the infrastucture built it is where these owners will exit and get their money back. Just my opinion, but thats my impression. Thanks for asking those pertinent financial questions. In a subsequent post you've said you've now been told the Nationwide Finance loan is for £1.6 million and not the £ 5 million you'd claimed on January 31st. That's a very big difference and you were quite specific with the £5 million figure, mentioning it twice, and adding that it was partially used for other purposes. Have you asked for an explanation from the person who told you ? If the Al-Saeeds have good relationships with banks and are able to obtain low interest rates why haven't they refinanced the Nationwide loan ? To try to claim that Nationwide is a low cost finance provider is pushing it a bit too far because they are obviously a second tier lender charging very high rates. Their accounts confirm this and they even make higher percentage profits than MSP Capital who were charging Rovers 1.2% per month. You were told that redeveloping the Mem would be financed through a mixture of selling land at the Quarters, investment from established partners and from the owners own pockets. But how does that stack up with starting the build in 25/26 because zoning the land at the Quarters and then obtaining planning permission will take many years if it happens at all. And selling land or bringing in partners wasn't mentioned by Hussain on October 28th last year when he was asked the same question and his reply was " That is something that we hope we can finance. We hope we can find banks or other financial institutions who can finance this because it will hopefully increase the revenue". I saw on Gaschat that Abdullatif told one of the Gasheads at the meeting that Rovers would show a loss of £ 5 million for the 22/23 financial year and that if this was maintained the club would fold within two or three years. That, IMO, is the level of honesty we need and what we certainly don't need is mixed messages or to have our hopes raised about a category 1 academy and a redeveloped Mem with Championship football within three years which is wholly unrealistic. To get an idea of what might be realistic at the Quarters after five acres of land is sold off here is an aerial view of the blank canvas we started with in 2017. Attachment Deleted |
|
|
|
Post by Colyton Gas. on Mar 1, 2024 14:59:24 GMT
Down here,little Axminster town have sold a small piece of land for housing which has wiped their debts.Beer Albion( club linesmen!!!) will have to install floodlights to go into the SW Peninsula league but have been offered an FA grant of £40,000 towards the £ 70,000 odd they will need.Not sure if grants are available at our level but great we are actually talking about ground improvements after so long.Recall the North Stand going up at Eastville in the late 1950's and the roof going up over the Thatchers ,but that's about it in 60 years!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 15:04:57 GMT
The training ground is in the 'green belt' and as I far as I know houses wouldnt get planning permission ? I know that there has been talk for years that could change but if that was likely the previous owners would have hung on to it ? Would there be enough of an access road for housing ? Plenty. The access into the quarters itself is enough for an HGV to get into. |
|
|
|
Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 1, 2024 15:10:49 GMT
I was there last night. It was a good meeting in all. Abdullatif was happy to chuck TG under the bus for his previous operational mistakes and it appears hes become a bit of a PA rather than a CEO. It was me who questioned him on the finance side of his model for the club. My questions were how were the stands going to be funded at the ground, the training ground built/remodelled to Cat 1 status? His reply was a mixture of selling some land at The Quarters, investments from established partners and the owners own pockets. He said that his family have very good relationships with banks through their previous projects for low rates of interest on any monies borrowed. He stated the The Quarters is around 30 acres in size of which only 5 is currently in use. The plan is to sell around 5 acres for housing to fund the Cat 1 academy. I asked how much he expected to raise (3 times!) from that to go towards the project? He said it would be around £8m. I also asked him if the money spent was going to go on the clubs balance sheet as debt or is it gifted by the owners with the debt capitalised and he dodged that question. He was insistant that infrastructure was the key to building us as a ready made PL club which is sustainable in the championship. My impression is that The stadium is what is important to the 3 year model, EG, start building next year with the hope to be there by the time the stand is completed with the TG a much longer and larger project. I also detected that if they go get to the championship with the infrastucture built it is where these owners will exit and get their money back. Just my opinion, but thats my impression. Thanks for asking those pertinent financial questions. In a subsequent post you've said you've now been told the Nationwide Finance loan is for £1.6 million and not the £ 5 million you'd claimed on January 31st. That's a very big difference and you were quite specific with the £5 million figure, mentioning it twice, and adding that it was partially used for other purposes. Have you asked for an explanation from the person who told you ? If the Al-Saeeds have good relationships with banks and are able to obtain low interest rates why haven't they refinanced the Nationwide loan ? To try to claim that Nationwide is a low cost finance provider is pushing it a bit too far because they are obviously a second tier lender charging very high rates. Their accounts confirm this and they even make higher percentage profits than MSP Capital who were charging Rovers 1.2% per month. You were told that redeveloping the Mem would be financed through a mixture of selling land at the Quarters, investment from established partners and from the owners own pockets. But how does that stack up with starting the build in 25/26 because zoning the land at the Quarters and then obtaining planning permission will take many years if it happens at all. And selling land or bringing in partners wasn't mentioned by Hussain on October 28th last year when he was asked the same question and his reply was " That is something that we hope we can finance. We hope we can find banks or other financial institutions who can finance this because it will hopefully increase the revenue". I saw on Gaschat that Abdullatif told one of the Gasheads at the meeting that Rovers would show a loss of £ 5 million for the 22/23 financial year and that if this was maintained the club would fold within two or three years. That, IMO, is the level of honesty we need and what we certainly don't need is mixed messages or to have our hopes raised about a category 1 academy and a redeveloped Mem with Championship football within three years which is wholly unrealistic. To get an idea of what might be realistic at the Quarters after five acres of land is sold off here is an aerial view of the blank canvas we started with in 2017. View Attachment Good additional questions Swiss, of which some I wanted to ask, but time with the mic did not allow. I havent seen the person who told me about the loan initially. As I said on GC, I think the sale of the land would finance the traning ground and not the stadium. I very much got the impression that the stadium is clearly priority number one and the training ground is a longer term vision not allied to getting into the championship in 3 years. There is certainly plenty of room there. |
|
bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 15,747
|
Post by bluetornados on Mar 1, 2024 15:25:21 GMT
Down here,little Axminster town have sold a small piece of land for housing which has wiped their debts.Beer Albion( club linesmen!!!) will have to install floodlights to go into the SW Peninsula league but have been offered an FA grant of £40,000 towards the £ 70,000 odd they will need.Not sure if grants are available at our level but great we are actually talking about ground improvements after so long.Recall the North Stand going up at Eastville in the late 1950's and the roof going up over the Thatchers ,but that's about it in 60 years!!!!!! If i were a multi-millionaire i would spend my time travelling up and down this wonderful country of ours looking for projects like this.... |
|
|
|
Post by swissgas on Mar 1, 2024 15:40:52 GMT
Thanks for asking those pertinent financial questions. In a subsequent post you've said you've now been told the Nationwide Finance loan is for £1.6 million and not the £ 5 million you'd claimed on January 31st. That's a very big difference and you were quite specific with the £5 million figure, mentioning it twice, and adding that it was partially used for other purposes. Have you asked for an explanation from the person who told you ? If the Al-Saeeds have good relationships with banks and are able to obtain low interest rates why haven't they refinanced the Nationwide loan ? To try to claim that Nationwide is a low cost finance provider is pushing it a bit too far because they are obviously a second tier lender charging very high rates. Their accounts confirm this and they even make higher percentage profits than MSP Capital who were charging Rovers 1.2% per month. You were told that redeveloping the Mem would be financed through a mixture of selling land at the Quarters, investment from established partners and from the owners own pockets. But how does that stack up with starting the build in 25/26 because zoning the land at the Quarters and then obtaining planning permission will take many years if it happens at all. And selling land or bringing in partners wasn't mentioned by Hussain on October 28th last year when he was asked the same question and his reply was " That is something that we hope we can finance. We hope we can find banks or other financial institutions who can finance this because it will hopefully increase the revenue". I saw on Gaschat that Abdullatif told one of the Gasheads at the meeting that Rovers would show a loss of £ 5 million for the 22/23 financial year and that if this was maintained the club would fold within two or three years. That, IMO, is the level of honesty we need and what we certainly don't need is mixed messages or to have our hopes raised about a category 1 academy and a redeveloped Mem with Championship football within three years which is wholly unrealistic. To get an idea of what might be realistic at the Quarters after five acres of land is sold off here is an aerial view of the blank canvas we started with in 2017. View Attachment Good additional questions Swiss, of which some I wanted to ask, but time with the mic did not allow. I havent seen the person who told me about the loan initially. As I said on GC, I think the sale of the land would finance the traning ground and not the stadium. I very much got the impression that the stadium is clearly priority number one and the training ground is a longer term vision not allied to getting into the championship in 3 years. There is certainly plenty of room there. The alarm bells start ringing when there is a lack of consistency as there is between what was said by Hussain on October 28th, his open letter from February 12th and what was said by Abdullatif last night. If "Gasify" on Gaschat is correct and Abdullatif did say the club could fold within two to three years if the 22/23 losses are maintained then my advice would be to stop making promises about the training ground and stadium (put that on the back burner) and concentrate first on getting the business on a sound financial footing which can be sustained. Whatever is said about the difference between "investments" and "running costss" the fact is that as soon as you start prioritising "investments" you take your eye off the ball so running costs creep back up and cash requirements increase. We have recent experience of the huge amount of cash expended on professional and other costs for the UWE Stadium project which was initially capitalised and gave a completely false balance sheet picture but then had to be totally written off. Despite everything reported as said last night I fear, as you've hinted at, we may be lurching towards another gamble on being able to get to the Championship before the chickens come home to roost. |
|
