oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,556
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Post by oldie on Nov 7, 2023 10:03:28 GMT
Watching news updates from Palestine this morning is unbearable.
Feeds from GAZA from the daily life of a rescue worker, ambulance and hospital personnel.
Injured children being pulled from rubble after a targeted air strike. A baby semi conscious.
Thousands have been killed.
Someone has to say it, this retribution is as bad as the vile acts that preceded it.
How can there be peace after this.
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 7, 2023 10:35:28 GMT
Watching news updates from Palestine this morning is unbearable. Feeds from GAZA from the daily life of a rescue worker, ambulance and hospital personnel. Injured children being pulled from rubble after a targeted air strike. A baby semi conscious. Thousands have been killed. Someone has to say it, this retribution is as bad as the vile acts that preceded it. How can there be peace after this. The only long term way to peace is to eradicate Hamas and all the other Islamic murderers in Gaza. If the Israelis did nothing then Oct 7th will not only happen again, but each successive time it will be worse. You cannot bow down and appease terrorism. Doing nothing will only perpetuate the violence. The Palestinians could have avoided this. All they had to do was hand the kidnapped people back, and world opinion would have stopped Israel. "Someone has to say it, this retribution is as bad as the vile acts that preceded it." - The Israelis make every attempt to limit civilian casualties. If they destroy a large building they first do what is called a 'roof knocking'. They drop a small bomb onto the roof of the building and give the people inside fifteen minutes to evacuate the building before it is destroyed. The IDF ground troops do not go round killing, raping, beheading people, burning them alive. They make every effort to target only gunmen. Yes, some civilians will be killed. Hamas and Co are well aware of this. As I said, it could have been avoided if they had handed back those people they had kidnapped. "How can there be peace after this." - Unfortunately, Israel has tried all of the suggested negotiations and appeasement. Hamas do not want peace. How many more times does this need to be pointed out to you? |
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Post by rideintothesun on Nov 7, 2023 10:56:42 GMT
The refugee crisis started in 1948 when the Arab states rejected partition and attacked Israel. The refugees both fled and were driven out. I was referring to Palestinian refugees already resident in other Arab states like Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. These refugees will never return to Israel. Israel did not exist before 1948 so could not be attacked. The Palestinians were defending their existing position against imposed partition. Partition was not imposed - Arabs were given a chance to live alongside Jews in a spirit of co-existence and mutual respect on terms that were better than the ones proposed under the two-state solution. They rejected it and launched a war with the aim of killing each and every Jew they could find. Then, as now, they rejected compromise and chose hatred, intolerance and violence. The Palestinians had so many advantages in their search for a national state - international law, a vocal and educated diaspora community, huge financial support and substantial international sympathy. They wasted it all, but they and their supporters will persist in blaming anyone but them. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 7, 2023 11:07:31 GMT
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,556
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Post by oldie on Nov 7, 2023 13:23:29 GMT
Israel did not exist before 1948 so could not be attacked. The Palestinians were defending their existing position against imposed partition. Partition was not imposed - Arabs were given a chance to live alongside Jews in a spirit of co-existence and mutual respect on terms that were better than the ones proposed under the two-state solution. They rejected it and launched a war with the aim of killing each and every Jew they could find. Then, as now, they rejected compromise and chose hatred, intolerance and violence. The Palestinians had so many advantages in their search for a national state - international law, a vocal and educated diaspora community, huge financial support and substantial international sympathy. They wasted it all, but they and their supporters will persist in blaming anyone but them. Could you point me to any documented evidence for those statements? The British did try and impose a partition on the existing residents, the Jews fought a terrorist war against us in defiance of that solution and naturally the resident Palestinians rejected partition of their existing homelands. Unless you can point me to evidence of the contrary? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,556
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Post by oldie on Nov 7, 2023 13:29:14 GMT
Watching news updates from Palestine this morning is unbearable. Feeds from GAZA from the daily life of a rescue worker, ambulance and hospital personnel. Injured children being pulled from rubble after a targeted air strike. A baby semi conscious. Thousands have been killed. Someone has to say it, this retribution is as bad as the vile acts that preceded it. How can there be peace after this. The only long term way to peace is to eradicate Hamas and all the other Islamic murderers in Gaza. If the Israelis did nothing then Oct 7th will not only happen again, but each successive time it will be worse. You cannot bow down and appease terrorism. Doing nothing will only perpetuate the violence. The Palestinians could have avoided this. All they had to do was hand the kidnapped people back, and world opinion would have stopped Israel. "Someone has to say it, this retribution is as bad as the vile acts that preceded it." - The Israelis make every attempt to limit civilian casualties. If they destroy a large building they first do what is called a 'roof knocking'. They drop a small bomb onto the roof of the building and give the people inside fifteen minutes to evacuate the building before it is destroyed. The IDF ground troops do not go round killing, raping, beheading people, burning them alive. They make every effort to target only gunmen. Yes, some civilians will be killed. Hamas and Co are well aware of this. As I said, it could have been avoided if they had handed back those people they had kidnapped. "How can there be peace after this." - Unfortunately, Israel has tried all of the suggested negotiations and appeasement. Hamas do not want peace. How many more times does this need to be pointed out to you? The point is, we can all take a one eyed view of this situation but the fact remains that a disgusting act of terror invoked by HAMAS is is being replicated by the Israelis in retribution. It is clear (to me at least) that this is their final solution. To destroy GAZA, have an enforced occupation and create another mass refugee crisis through depopulation. That will not end well. I would love to know what the Americans have said to the Iranians that has kept them at bay. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 7, 2023 14:09:20 GMT
The only long term way to peace is to eradicate Hamas and all the other Islamic murderers in Gaza. If the Israelis did nothing then Oct 7th will not only happen again, but each successive time it will be worse. You cannot bow down and appease terrorism. Doing nothing will only perpetuate the violence. The Palestinians could have avoided this. All they had to do was hand the kidnapped people back, and world opinion would have stopped Israel. "Someone has to say it, this retribution is as bad as the vile acts that preceded it." - The Israelis make every attempt to limit civilian casualties. If they destroy a large building they first do what is called a 'roof knocking'. They drop a small bomb onto the roof of the building and give the people inside fifteen minutes to evacuate the building before it is destroyed. The IDF ground troops do not go round killing, raping, beheading people, burning them alive. They make every effort to target only gunmen. Yes, some civilians will be killed. Hamas and Co are well aware of this. As I said, it could have been avoided if they had handed back those people they had kidnapped. "How can there be peace after this." - Unfortunately, Israel has tried all of the suggested negotiations and appeasement. Hamas do not want peace. How many more times does this need to be pointed out to you? The point is, we can all take a one eyed view of this situation but the fact remains that a disgusting act of terror invoked by HAMAS is is being replicated by the Israelis in retribution. It is clear (to me at least) that this is their final solution. To destroy GAZA, have an enforced occupation and create another mass refugee crisis through depopulation. That will not end well. I would love to know what the Americans have said to the Iranians that has kept them at bay. I disagree. The Israelis are not replicating the attack by the Palestinians. You will find the IDF do not do rape, beheadings, burning alive people, or killing for killings sake. They are attempting to put an end to the barbaric actions of the Palestinians once and for all and they should be applauded for doing this. If they don't eradicate Hamas and the other groups the violence will just continue and get worse over the years. I don't think the Americans said anything to Iran. As I stated earlier in the thread, the US Fleet is there as a warning to Iran not to get involved. Plus, in reality Iran would be s**tting the proverbial brick at fighting the US. The Iranian leadership are cowards and prefer to pay others to do their dirty work. Gaza, West Bank, Lebenon, Syria and Yemen are all trouble spots and funded by Iran. Iran's time will come soon. |
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Post by rideintothesun on Nov 7, 2023 14:09:47 GMT
Partition was not imposed - Arabs were given a chance to live alongside Jews in a spirit of co-existence and mutual respect on terms that were better than the ones proposed under the two-state solution. They rejected it and launched a war with the aim of killing each and every Jew they could find. Then, as now, they rejected compromise and chose hatred, intolerance and violence. The Palestinians had so many advantages in their search for a national state - international law, a vocal and educated diaspora community, huge financial support and substantial international sympathy. They wasted it all, but they and their supporters will persist in blaming anyone but them. Could you point me to any documented evidence for those statements? The British did try and impose a partition on the existing residents, the Jews fought a terrorist war against us in defiance of that solution and naturally the resident Palestinians rejected partition of their existing homelands. Unless you can point me to evidence of the contrary? It is possible that the Jews accepted partition because they knew the Arabs would reject it. Zionist leaders also did not view partition as the final step in the Zionist project and calculated that the Arabs would opt for war. But the historical fact is that the Jews accepted partition and the Arabs rejected it. The partition terms weren't favourable and the Arabs believed that they could get a better deal by opting for force. They were wrong. Haj Amin al-Husseini, Yasser Arafat's distant cousin and a Nazi ally in WW2, was the Palestinian leader of the time. Anwar Sadat, who signed the Egypt-Israel peace deal in 1979, was also an anti-Semite. Mahmoud Abbas, the current PA president, has also been accused of Holocaust denial. These are the people that Israel has to do business with. Jews also cooperated closely with the British authorities during the Mandate, most notably in the 1936-39 Arab Revolt. They turned against us because we tried to limit the entry of Jews after the Holocaust. On my final point, I think it is self-evident that the Palestinian political leadership have, more than not, been their own worst enemies. This also applies to the pro-Palestinian protests - if you want to win public sympathy, then verbally and physically abusing elderly poppy-sellers and firing fireworks into crowds are not the best way to go about it. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 7, 2023 14:10:49 GMT
" have an enforced occupation and create another mass refugee crisis through depopulation." - Where would the Palestinians go? Nobody wants them. They really are the Arabic world's useful idiots.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,556 
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Post by trymer on Nov 7, 2023 19:53:14 GMT
What's your point? Apart from making it up. He is not making anything up. I have seen the video and she was dead in the back of that pick-up truck. There is something that nobody in the MSM have noted. She was dead, of that there was no doubt. She had been stripped down to her bra and pants and was wearing a blindfold. You do not put a blindfold on someone who is already dead. This indicates she was alive when captured, and subsequently killed. So, if she was alive when captured, then just what the hell did they do to her? The angle of her broken leg tells you that it was deeply disturbing. So no Oldie, nobody is making anything up. Good luck to Israel as they attempt to eradicate this cancer on humanity. No doubt the deniers like trolldie will say that the girl committed suicide and the helpful Hamas lads whisked her off to hospital in their pick up truck. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,556
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Post by trymer on Nov 7, 2023 19:56:25 GMT
Nobbygas,you mentioned Trophy and the later Merkava's have it fitted,the explosion when it goes off seems severe,does it stop supporting infantry from being near to the tanks ? The reason I ask is that the Israelis seem to be sending armour into urban areas without infantry support,Hamas fighters are getting close and firing 2 RPG's in successsion,the first one to set the Trophy off and the second one then hits the unprotected tank... An RPG wouldn't provide any threat to a Merkava. It won't penetrate the armour. Something has taken a few Merkava's out, is the rear armour and hatch more vulnerable ? I certainly wouldnt want to be an infantry man near a tank when Trophy explodes. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,556
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Post by oldie on Nov 8, 2023 9:25:42 GMT
" have an enforced occupation and create another mass refugee crisis through depopulation." - Where would the Palestinians go? Nobody wants them. They really are the Arabic world's useful idiots. Like 1948. Come on Nobby there is no need to be offensive over a nation like that. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,556
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Post by oldie on Nov 8, 2023 9:27:24 GMT
Could you point me to any documented evidence for those statements? The British did try and impose a partition on the existing residents, the Jews fought a terrorist war against us in defiance of that solution and naturally the resident Palestinians rejected partition of their existing homelands. Unless you can point me to evidence of the contrary? It is possible that the Jews accepted partition because they knew the Arabs would reject it. Zionist leaders also did not view partition as the final step in the Zionist project and calculated that the Arabs would opt for war. But the historical fact is that the Jews accepted partition and the Arabs rejected it. The partition terms weren't favourable and the Arabs believed that they could get a better deal by opting for force. They were wrong. Haj Amin al-Husseini, Yasser Arafat's distant cousin and a Nazi ally in WW2, was the Palestinian leader of the time. Anwar Sadat, who signed the Egypt-Israel peace deal in 1979, was also an anti-Semite. Mahmoud Abbas, the current PA president, has also been accused of Holocaust denial. These are the people that Israel has to do business with. Jews also cooperated closely with the British authorities during the Mandate, most notably in the 1936-39 Arab Revolt. They turned against us because we tried to limit the entry of Jews after the Holocaust. On my final point, I think it is self-evident that the Palestinian political leadership have, more than not, been their own worst enemies. This also applies to the pro-Palestinian protests - if you want to win public sympathy, then verbally and physically abusing elderly poppy-sellers and firing fireworks into crowds are not the best way to go about it. I repeat "Could you point me to any documented evidence for those statements?" |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 8, 2023 13:17:19 GMT
" have an enforced occupation and create another mass refugee crisis through depopulation." - Where would the Palestinians go? Nobody wants them. They really are the Arabic world's useful idiots. Like 1948. Come on Nobby there is no need to be offensive over a nation like that. Not offensive, it's the truth. Why hasn't Egypt or Jordan taken in any Palestinian refugees? Why have Egypt move a large armoured force to the Gaza border? Hint: It's not to attack the Israelis. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,556
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Post by oldie on Nov 8, 2023 14:45:24 GMT
Like 1948. Come on Nobby there is no need to be offensive over a nation like that. Not offensive, it's the truth. Why hasn't Egypt or Jordan taken in any Palestinian refugees? Why have Egypt move a large armoured force to the Gaza border? Hint: It's not to attack the Israelis. No it's not. But the way I read it is that powerless to do anything to stop Israel and with equal disgust for HAMAS, Egypt and Jordan will not play Israel's game of destruction and depopulation. Jordan has an official total of over 700,000 refugees,mostly from Syria however the number is more likely to be 1M+. Egypt has over 400,000, mostly from Sudan and Syria. Both figures via UNHCR. That might also be a reason. Both not overly wealthy countries. Rumours that Suella Braverman has been asked to provide advice to both countries has been denied. |
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Post by russiangas on Nov 9, 2023 14:14:48 GMT
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 9, 2023 14:46:31 GMT
Nobody is trying to 'cover up' anything. There are British people among those kidnapped. It is only right and proper that British Forces will be looking to rescue them. It doesn't help things when the media start speculating and reporting on these missions. People can die, and what for, a headline in a rag ? |
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Post by russiangas on Nov 9, 2023 14:59:22 GMT
Nobody is trying to 'cover up' anything. There are British people among those kidnapped. It is only right and proper that British Forces will be looking to rescue them. It doesn't help things when the media start speculating and reporting on these missions. People can die, and what for, a headline in a rag ? so issuing a D notice to try to stop publishing something is not covering up something? It's blatantly trying to stop people from finding out that the SAS are involved. If all they are doing is rescuing hostages in a non combatant role then why would they need to stop it getting out into the news??? Very fishy if you ask me. We know the kind of things the SAS gets up to e.g. shooting people after they have been detained etc. There's plenty of evidence of that. Killing unarmed Arabs is a speciality of theirs so I guess they'll be right at home. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 9, 2023 15:08:04 GMT
"If all they are doing is rescuing hostages in a non combatant role " - You are joking, right? You obviously have no idea whatsoever regarding hostage rescue missions.
"We know the kind of things the SAS gets up to e.g. shooting people after they have been detained etc. There's plenty of evidence of that." - Can you please provide any evidence to your outrageous claims?
You need to give your head a wibble,
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Post by russiangas on Nov 9, 2023 15:13:51 GMT
"If all they are doing is rescuing hostages in a non combatant role " - You are joking, right? You obviously have no idea whatsoever regarding hostage rescue missions. "We know the kind of things the SAS gets up to e.g. shooting people after they have been detained etc. There's plenty of evidence of that." - Can you please provide any evidence to your outrageous claims? You need to give your head a wibble, Just to start with, I can provide loads loads more if you like. So you're some kind of expert in hostage rescue missions are you then??? What are your credentials please? If you're such an expert yourself? Just a right wing bully more like who thinks he knows more than he does. |
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