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Post by Nobbygas on Mar 23, 2023 15:49:39 GMT
Yes, the Leopard's do have a big question mark regarding their survivability. We know that they are not in the same class as the Abrams or Challenger 2. However, there are a lot of them readily available. I'm pretty certain that the Ukes are very happy to receive them rather than nothing. The year of purchase in not important as it depends on what upgrades have been fitted since. Just one point. Tanks are not supposed to come up against other tanks. They tend to avoid that scenario if possible. Tanks would prefer to go after infantry or soft skinned vehicles, where they can inflicted heavy damage. That is really their function, and not to fight other tanks. If we do see tank v tank then history has shown us that the Russian tanks will be devastated by the tanks from the West. That's the outcome from every Russian v Western tank action, ever. Quite a few questions about the Abrams too. Yes there are a lot of them (over 2000 built) but quite a lot of them are totally shot,they could be sent back to manufacturer for complete rebuilds but that isnt going to happen. You say that year of purchase isnt important but year of manufacture is,these tanks had over 20 years of use and heavy tanks cross country puts a lot of strain on moving parts,then stick them in a warehouse for a few years and you have a good few problems. A lot of the stored ones would have been unserviceable before they went into store and anything of use that could be removed would have been,probably some have been cannibalised, very minimal maintenance (if any),deteteriation to rubber seals,wiring and sights. Apparently Spain have 108 Leopard 2s (early ones) in storeage,53 are repairable 33 of which need extensive work, I doubt that other countries stock is much different. The only upgraded Leopard 2s promised are German, they could supply more. Questions marks against the Abrams? I seem to recall the US lost nine Abrams in Iraq. Seven were to friendly fire and two were destroyed to stop them falling into enemy hands. How many Iraqi tanks were destroyed? Iraq lost around 900 tanks. 33 may need extensive work, but that is far cheaper and quicker than building the tank from scratch. |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Mar 23, 2023 16:00:00 GMT
Quite a few questions about the Abrams too. Yes there are a lot of them (over 2000 built) but quite a lot of them are totally shot,they could be sent back to manufacturer for complete rebuilds but that isnt going to happen. You say that year of purchase isnt important but year of manufacture is,these tanks had over 20 years of use and heavy tanks cross country puts a lot of strain on moving parts,then stick them in a warehouse for a few years and you have a good few problems. A lot of the stored ones would have been unserviceable before they went into store and anything of use that could be removed would have been,probably some have been cannibalised, very minimal maintenance (if any),deteteriation to rubber seals,wiring and sights. Apparently Spain have 108 Leopard 2s (early ones) in storeage,53 are repairable 33 of which need extensive work, I doubt that other countries stock is much different. The only upgraded Leopard 2s promised are German, they could supply more. Questions marks against the Abrams? I seem to recall the US lost nine Abrams in Iraq. Seven were to friendly fire and two were destroyed to stop them falling into enemy hands. How many Iraqi tanks were destroyed? Iraq lost around 900 tanks. 33 may need extensive work, but that is far cheaper and quicker than building the tank from scratch. The Saudis are buying more Abrams from America some to replace the ones that have been destroyed. Again,I would expect Western operated Abrams to do well against the Iraqi army in their old Soviet junk. The 33 Leopard 2s will take months to get serviceable if that ever happens, so 20 tanks avilable (now) out of 108 in storeage. The Americans have promised Abrams to Ukraine,was going to be new ones but now they are going to give them some old ones that have been in storage as they can provide them quicker. |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 24, 2023 14:02:22 GMT
I have an update for you. I saw the pictures of a Canadian Leopard 2 being delivered to the Ukrainians today, not the newer up armoured version ,no these are the same or similar to the Leopard 2's that Turkey lost so many of in Syria. I see that the Canadian Leopard 2s were originally bought by the Dutch....between 1981 and 86 ! After seeing all those old Russian tanks whacked last year its going to be interesting to see how this lot of old junk fares, Ukraine is going to end up as a massive scrapyard at this rate. Yes, the Leopard's do have a big question mark regarding their survivability. We know that they are not in the same class as the Abrams or Challenger 2. However, there are a lot of them readily available. I'm pretty certain that the Ukes are very happy to receive them rather than nothing. The year of purchase in not important as it depends on what upgrades have been fitted since. Just one point. Tanks are not supposed to come up against other tanks. They tend to avoid that scenario if possible. Tanks would prefer to go after infantry or soft skinned vehicles, where they can inflicted heavy damage. That is really their function, and not to fight other tanks. If we do see tank v tank then history has shown us that the Russian tanks will be devastated by the tanks from the West. That's the outcome from every Russian v Western tank action, ever. Apart from Kursk  |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Mar 24, 2023 15:19:32 GMT
Yes, the Leopard's do have a big question mark regarding their survivability. We know that they are not in the same class as the Abrams or Challenger 2. However, there are a lot of them readily available. I'm pretty certain that the Ukes are very happy to receive them rather than nothing. The year of purchase in not important as it depends on what upgrades have been fitted since. Just one point. Tanks are not supposed to come up against other tanks. They tend to avoid that scenario if possible. Tanks would prefer to go after infantry or soft skinned vehicles, where they can inflicted heavy damage. That is really their function, and not to fight other tanks. If we do see tank v tank then history has shown us that the Russian tanks will be devastated by the tanks from the West. That's the outcome from every Russian v Western tank action, ever. Apart from Kursk Good thinking Epping however the Soviets lost 5 times as many tanks and AFVs as the Germans at Kursk...the Red army 'won' the battle because the Germans couldnt break through the massed anti tank guns in the Soviet defence lines. |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Mar 26, 2023 9:19:56 GMT
Russia to position nuclear weapons in Belarus, or so they say.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Mar 26, 2023 9:21:58 GMT
Zelensky saying that without more Western arms there will be no Ukrainian spring offensive, I dont believe that, I expect there will be an offensive by the end of May.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Mar 26, 2023 9:27:06 GMT
I have an update for you. I saw the pictures of a Canadian Leopard 2 being delivered to the Ukrainians today, not the newer up armoured version ,no these are the same or similar to the Leopard 2's that Turkey lost so many of in Syria. I see that the Canadian Leopard 2s were originally bought by the Dutch....between 1981 and 86 ! After seeing all those old Russian tanks whacked last year its going to be interesting to see how this lot of old junk fares, Ukraine is going to end up as a massive scrapyard at this rate. If we do see tank v tank then history has shown us that the Russian tanks will be devastated by the tanks from the West. That's the outcome from every Russian v Western tank action, ever. Except in the Iran v Iraq war where T72s caused so many casualties to Irans Chieftains that the Iraqi's didnt buy the Chieftains that Britain was offering them. Also in Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, Iraqi T72s beat Kuwaits Vickers causing huge losses. |
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lostinspace
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Post by lostinspace on Mar 28, 2023 9:08:32 GMT
""https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14SfZM9Y7BQ, a scenic walk through " ONE WAGNER CEMETERY".. with space for more... what a waste
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Mar 28, 2023 11:10:41 GMT
""https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14SfZM9Y7BQ, a scenic walk through " ONE WAGNER CEMETERY".. with space for more... what a waste Is this close to what you wanted to show..? |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Mar 28, 2023 15:24:30 GMT
""https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14SfZM9Y7BQ, a scenic walk through " ONE WAGNER CEMETERY".. with space for more... what a waste War does waste lives especially the way that Russians fight wars, they dont know how many military dead that they had in WW2 estimates 8,600,000 but no one knows the true figure. Not just dead but badly wounded,I doubt whether limbless ex servicemen have a rosy future in Russia. Apparently many badly wounded Ukrainian troops have been sent to hospitals in USA,lots of experience there of multiple amputations from Iraq war, massive advances in medical treatment over the years, people with wounds that would have died in Vietnam war can now be saved. |
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lostinspace
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Post by lostinspace on Mar 28, 2023 15:39:17 GMT
""https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14SfZM9Y7BQ, a scenic walk through " ONE WAGNER CEMETERY".. with space for more... what a waste Is this close to what you wanted to show..? Hi yes very similar,,( didn't realize the link hadn't worked.thanks |
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lostinspace
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Ukraine
Apr 4, 2023 17:09:50 GMT
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Post by lostinspace on Apr 4, 2023 17:09:50 GMT
Russia declares " retribution" after it was confirmed Finland becomes the official new partner of NATO..Baited breath..
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Post by Nobbygas on Apr 4, 2023 18:27:21 GMT
Russia declares " retribution" after it was confirmed Finland becomes the official new partner of NATO..Baited breath.. Just sabre rattling. Russia is a busted flush with only the nuclear threat left. |
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Apr 5, 2023 10:20:51 GMT
Russia declares " retribution" after it was confirmed Finland becomes the official new partner of NATO..Baited breath.. Just sabre rattling. Russia is a busted flush with only the nuclear threat left. Do you think that is why Putin is saying that they moving tactical short range nuclear weapons to Belarus then Nobby? |
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Post by Nobbygas on Apr 5, 2023 13:12:33 GMT
Just sabre rattling. Russia is a busted flush with only the nuclear threat left. Do you think that is why Putin is saying that they moving tactical short range nuclear weapons to Belarus then Nobby? On the one hand yes, but I also think it's to enable deniability if they are used from Belarus. There is no logical reason to move them into Belarus as they could just as easily been left in Russia and launched from there. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Apr 13, 2023 12:31:21 GMT
Things look as though they will really be taking off pretty soon. There is no doubt the Ukes are planning a major offensive somewhere and it'll probably be launched soon.
My personal opinion is that it will attempt to cut off the Crimea. I don't think there is a need as such to actually 'invade' the Crimea at this point. As I constantly say, attack the weak points and isolate the strong points until they become weak. Cut the land bridge (MSL Main Supply Route) on the mainland and destroy the Kerch bridge and it'll be practically isolated and untenable for the Russians. Why do I think the Crimea will be the target? For the Russians the loss of the Crimea will mean the loss of the war, and there will be no way Putin can remain in power if the Crimea is lost.
It will be an interesting Summer, that's for sure.
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lostinspace
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Ukraine
Apr 13, 2023 19:52:49 GMT
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Post by lostinspace on Apr 13, 2023 19:52:49 GMT
All as the source of the " secrets" is revealed, a young USA air national guard, don't fancy his next few months ,seems a bit of an arrogant young thing,that just may change if found guilty over the next 30 years!!
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Apr 14, 2023 14:00:14 GMT
Things look as though they will really be taking off pretty soon. There is no doubt the Ukes are planning a major offensive somewhere and it'll probably be launched soon. My personal opinion is that it will attempt to cut off the Crimea. I don't think there is a need as such to actually 'invade' the Crimea at this point. As I constantly say, attack the weak points and isolate the strong points until they become weak. Cut the land bridge (MSL Main Supply Route) on the mainland and destroy the Kerch bridge and it'll be practically isolated and untenable for the Russians. Why do I think the Crimea will be the target? For the Russians the loss of the Crimea will mean the loss of the war, and there will be no way Putin can remain in power if the Crimea is lost. It will be an interesting Summer, that's for sure. Standard procedure to attack weak points and leave strongpoints isolated or bombard them with artillery. Seems the Ukes could have 40,000 new troops trained in EU and UK with armour, no doubt US giving them up to date information on Russian positions,so they could punch through in a couple of places. I agree that it will be interesting,if the Russians look like they are getting rolled up will they resort to tactical nuclear weapons ? Some Americans getting fed up with paying for the war,if that sentiment becomes widespread it could affect future funding,so this offensive could be the final one. |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Apr 14, 2023 14:02:28 GMT
All as the source of the " secrets" is revealed, a young USA air national guard, don't fancy his next few months ,seems a bit of an arrogant young thing,that just may change if found guilty over the next 30 years!! Hard to believe that someone so junior could access material that important,if its true then American 'security' is sloppy. |
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lostinspace
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Post by lostinspace on Apr 14, 2023 15:19:21 GMT
Things look as though they will really be taking off pretty soon. There is no doubt the Ukes are planning a major offensive somewhere and it'll probably be launched soon. My personal opinion is that it will attempt to cut off the Crimea. I don't think there is a need as such to actually 'invade' the Crimea at this point. As I constantly say, attack the weak points and isolate the strong points until they become weak. Cut the land bridge (MSL Main Supply Route) on the mainland and destroy the Kerch bridge and it'll be practically isolated and untenable for the Russians. Why do I think the Crimea will be the target? For the Russians the loss of the Crimea will mean the loss of the war, and there will be no way Putin can remain in power if the Crimea is lost. It will be an interesting Summer, that's for sure. Standard procedure to attack weak points and leave strongpoints isolated or bombard them with artillery. Seems the Ukes could have 40,000 new troops trained in EU and UK with armour, no doubt US giving them up to date information on Russian positions,so they could punch through in a couple of places. I agree that it will be interesting,if the Russians look like they are getting rolled up will they resort to tactical nuclear weapons ? Some Americans getting fed up with paying for the war,if that sentiment becomes widespread it could affect future funding,so this offensive could be the final one. think nobby pointed out a while back about what the actual expenditure was the US are "donating! barely ripple the wallet per person........ i dread to think what the situation would be had DT been in the White House... spewtin would be having lunch on the lawns by now me thinks!! |
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