oldie
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Post by oldie on Apr 28, 2022 21:22:36 GMT
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Apr 28, 2022 21:30:22 GMT
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Apr 29, 2022 18:05:19 GMT
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Post by Nobbygas on Apr 29, 2022 18:20:22 GMT
Sorry, but articles from remaining media outlets like the Guardian and the Economist don't really carry much weight. Linking to these stories, in your words isn't that what you call confirmation bias?
The first link is quoting a report from the LSE fer christ's sake and you take it all as gospel.
You've really got to do better than this.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Apr 29, 2022 18:50:11 GMT
Sorry, but articles from remaining media outlets like the Guardian and the Economist don't really carry much weight. Linking to these stories, in your words isn't that what you call confirmation bias? The first link is quoting a report from the LSE fer christ's sake and you take it all as gospel. You've really got to do better than this. Come on Nobby, it's not the medium, it's the stories. And, whether it's true or not. Are they true?
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Post by Nobbygas on Apr 29, 2022 19:07:35 GMT
Sorry, but articles from remaining media outlets like the Guardian and the Economist don't really carry much weight. Linking to these stories, in your words isn't that what you call confirmation bias? The first link is quoting a report from the LSE fer christ's sake and you take it all as gospel. You've really got to do better than this. Come on Nobby, it's not the medium, it's the stories. And, whether it's true or not. Are they true? I've no idea, but the sources are obviously very biased so therefore it is difficult to judge if there is any truth in them. Let me use this one line from the Economist as an example, "That looks suspiciously like smaller exporters giving up." - That line isn't based on data, it's just an opinion. It's pure guesswork. "looks suspiciously" is not a quantifiable statement.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Apr 29, 2022 21:05:38 GMT
Come on Nobby, it's not the medium, it's the stories. And, whether it's true or not. Are they true? I've no idea, but the sources are obviously very biased so therefore it is difficult to judge if there is any truth in them. Let me use this one line from the Economist as an example, "That looks suspiciously like smaller exporters giving up." - That line isn't based on data, it's just an opinion. It's pure guesswork. "looks suspiciously" is not a quantifiable statement.
Yes perhaps But is the decline in the gross value true The fact is Rees-Mogg confirmed it by saying (my words) "implementing the Brexit Agreement in terms of import checks would cause a huge cost burden on import/exporters." So it's true, Brexit has hit our cost base. That's the point.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 3, 2022 9:33:38 GMT
Winning 🇬🇧
"The TAC report also confirmed the deal could result in the UK having to accept imports of agrifoods produced with pesticides banned in the UK, GM crops and wool from mutilated sheep."
"The UK Government has estimated that the Australia deal could unlock £10.4bn of additional trade a year. However, this equates to only 0.08 per cent of GDP over 15 years – and the sheep industry has claimed that it runs the risk of being set up as the sacrificial lamb."
Good ere innit
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 9:07:00 GMT
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 10:07:53 GMT
In a land not far away, a nationalist party (s) voted for Brexit. Without thinking of the consequences. The rest of us, well Remainers who might well shout "we told you", may well have to pay the price if WTO tariffs are imposed on imports to the UK as a result of us withdrawing from the Brexit Agreement with the EU because we default on the NI Protocol. Unsurprisingly, in what may well become a majority, the normal folk in Northern Ireland are thinking..."f**k this, let's make Ireland one country" Back in Westminster, the incompetents are trying to act all hard. 😱🦃😂 www.spectator.co.uk/article/boriss-plans-for-a-new-brexit-clash
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Post by Nobbygas on May 5, 2022 10:30:21 GMT
In a land not far away, a nationalist party (s) voted for Brexit. Without thinking of the consequences. The rest of us, well Remainers who might well shout "we told you", may well have to pay the price if WTO tariffs are imposed on imports to the UK as a result of us withdrawing from the Brexit Agreement with the EU because we default on the NI Protocol. Unsurprisingly, in what may well become a majority, the normal folk in Northern Ireland are thinking..."f**k this, let's make Ireland one country" Back in Westminster, the incompetents are trying to act all hard. 😱🦃😂 www.spectator.co.uk/article/boriss-plans-for-a-new-brexit-clashThere was nor is any Nationalist Party. You are making things up again. No single party voted for Brexit. It was a national vote and was conducted not on party lines. Have we defaulted on the NI Agreement? No. Has the EU defaulted on the NI Agreement? No. If Northern Ireland votes to join the South, then so be it. It's democracy in action. Two problems though. Who will look after the Protestants and we know that the South will not be able to afford taking over Northern Ireland.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 10:42:26 GMT
In a land not far away, a nationalist party (s) voted for Brexit. Without thinking of the consequences. The rest of us, well Remainers who might well shout "we told you", may well have to pay the price if WTO tariffs are imposed on imports to the UK as a result of us withdrawing from the Brexit Agreement with the EU because we default on the NI Protocol. Unsurprisingly, in what may well become a majority, the normal folk in Northern Ireland are thinking..."f**k this, let's make Ireland one country" Back in Westminster, the incompetents are trying to act all hard. 😱🦃😂 www.spectator.co.uk/article/boriss-plans-for-a-new-brexit-clashThere was nor is any Nationalist Party. You are making things up again. No single party voted for Brexit. It was a national vote and was conducted not on party lines. Have we defaulted on the NI Agreement? No. Has the EU defaulted on the NI Agreement? No. If Northern Ireland votes to join the South, then so be it. It's democracy in action. Two problems though. Who will look after the Protestants and we know that the South will not be able to afford taking over Northern Ireland. The DUP do not advocate UK nationalism? It is their very core purpose wrapped in a cloak of perverted Christianity. And, like the RMT told their members and supporters to vote leave. www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-confirms-it-will-campaign-for-brexit-in-leaveremain-referendum-34470806.htmlLike the seafarers, how is that going for them. By tonight Sinn Fein may well be the governing party in NI. Karma at its most delicious.
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Post by Nobbygas on May 5, 2022 12:26:43 GMT
"Like the seafarers, how is that going for them. By tonight Sinn Fein may well be the governing party in NI.
Karma at its most delicious."
Wow. If Sinn Fein become the government in NI, what do you think will happen with the Protestant Community? There is a very good chance the troubles could start again. Last time it was the Catholics who felt oppressed. This time it will be the Protestants. People could die, and to you it's "karma at it's most delicious".
You really are a nasty piece of work.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 12:36:26 GMT
"Like the seafarers, how is that going for them. By tonight Sinn Fein may well be the governing party in NI. Karma at its most delicious." Wow. If Sinn Fein become the government in NI, what do you think will happen with the Protestant Community? There is a very good chance the troubles could start again. Last time it was the Catholics who felt oppressed. This time it will be the Protestants. People could die, and to you it's "karma at it's most delicious". You really are a nasty piece of work. Ha ha Classic "straw man" argument. I believe times have moved on. It appears you do not.
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Post by Nobbygas on May 5, 2022 14:01:24 GMT
"Like the seafarers, how is that going for them. By tonight Sinn Fein may well be the governing party in NI. Karma at its most delicious." Wow. If Sinn Fein become the government in NI, what do you think will happen with the Protestant Community? There is a very good chance the troubles could start again. Last time it was the Catholics who felt oppressed. This time it will be the Protestants. People could die, and to you it's "karma at it's most delicious". You really are a nasty piece of work. Ha ha Classic "straw man" argument. I believe times have moved on. It appears you do not. Spoken like someone who probably has never been to NI for any length of time.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 14:14:00 GMT
Ha ha Classic "straw man" argument. I believe times have moved on. It appears you do not. Spoken like someone who probably has never been to NI for any length of time. True, and I have only been to Ukraine once, fleetingly, in the mid to late 90's. I still think the Russians are complete w****rs, or to be more precise, their political leadership are. Oh, and the Russian leadership play the nationalist card as well. Funny how they are all complete dick heads, regardless of nationality or ethnicity.
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Post by Nobbygas on May 5, 2022 14:23:30 GMT
Spoken like someone who probably has never been to NI for any length of time. True, and I have only been to Ukraine once, fleetingly, in the mid to late 90's. I still think the Russians are complete w****rs, or to be more precise, their political leadership are. Oh, and the Russian leadership play the nationalist card as well. Funny how they are all complete dick heads, regardless of nationality or ethnicity. Go on then. In Northern Ireland, define who are 'Nationalists'? Is it those who wish to remain part of the UK, or those that wish to join with Eire? You seem to be the man with the labels, so let's hear how you would apply those labels.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 17:12:38 GMT
True, and I have only been to Ukraine once, fleetingly, in the mid to late 90's. I still think the Russians are complete w****rs, or to be more precise, their political leadership are. Oh, and the Russian leadership play the nationalist card as well. Funny how they are all complete dick heads, regardless of nationality or ethnicity. Go on then. In Northern Ireland, define who are 'Nationalists'? Is it those who wish to remain part of the UK, or those that wish to join with Eire? You seem to be the man with the labels, so let's hear how you would apply those labels. Ha ha. That line reads more like the "Rangers or Celtic" arguments in Glasgow. But happy to take it on. For me there are two groups of Nationalists in NI, one group who want to be identified with mainland "Unionist" nationalism wrapped in a cloak of a warped Protestant Christianity. They find themselves in an enclave of 6 counties, formed as a separate entity and coming into being in 1921, as part of an attempt by Westminster to quell the growing insurrection in Ireland generally. The Irish Free State was born who never accepted the Westminster imposed segregation. Could this be labelled "nationalism", and at its crudest led to violence in the form of the IRA. So here is the rub. Ireland is one country, it was us, the Brits, who segregated it. It is people like the DUP who do not accept the majority (and not try to over turn any decision democratically). So, obviously I support the right of the people of Ireland as a whole to decide their own future. Any democrat would. Thus nobody more relieved than me that they now pursue this through the ballot box. The DUP, have no such country to be nationalist about. The 6 counties are a construct of Westminster for political and administrative convenience. Thus they hang on the coat tails of English tradition and nationalism which, laughably, the majority of younger English born after 1980, reject. The funny thing is (but I am not laughing) that with the Good Friday Agreement and us all being members of the EU most of the outstanding issues were being confined to history. Border? What Border. Now with Brexit, a pig's breakfast of an "protocol" to cover customs issues, here we are again. And it's the same perverse nationalism creeping back into our lives. Union Jack's flanking rather stupid politicians like Johnson, and the language, oh god the language. So, a bit long winded in explanation of my view, which is the DUP and their ilk represent a laughable form of nationalism which in itself has no basis in the history of the peoples of Ireland, other than some sick religious fantasy. You could label them Sunni or Shia, it's the same thing.
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Post by Nobbygas on May 5, 2022 17:47:13 GMT
Go on then. In Northern Ireland, define who are 'Nationalists'? Is it those who wish to remain part of the UK, or those that wish to join with Eire? You seem to be the man with the labels, so let's hear how you would apply those labels. Ha ha. That line reads more like the "Rangers or Celtic" arguments in Glasgow. But happy to take it on. For me there are two groups of Nationalists in NI, one group who want to be identified with mainland "Unionist" nationalism wrapped in a cloak of a warped Protestant Christianity. They find themselves in an enclave of 6 counties, formed as a separate entity and coming into being in 1921, as part of an attempt by Westminster to quell the growing insurrection in Ireland generally. The Irish Free State was born who never accepted the Westminster imposed segregation. Could this be labelled "nationalism", and at its crudest led to violence in the form of the IRA. So here is the rub. Ireland is one country, it was us, the Brits, who segregated it. It is people like the DUP who do not accept the majority (and not try to over turn any decision democratically). So, obviously I support the right of the people of Ireland as a whole to decide their own future. Any democrat would. Thus nobody more relieved than me that they now pursue this through the ballot box. The DUP, have no such country to be nationalist about. The 6 counties are a construct of Westminster for political and administrative convenience. Thus they hang on the coat tails of English tradition and nationalism which, laughably, the majority of younger English born after 1980, reject. The funny thing is (but I am not laughing) that with the Good Friday Agreement and us all being members of the EU most of the outstanding issues were being confined to history. Border? What Border. Now with Brexit, a pig's breakfast of an "protocol" to cover customs issues, here we are again. And it's the same perverse nationalism creeping back into our lives. Union Jack's flanking rather stupid politicians like Johnson, and the language, oh god the language. So, a bit long winded in explanation of my view, which is the DUP and their ilk represent a laughable form of nationalism which in itself has no basis in the history of the peoples of Ireland, other than some sick religious fantasy. You could label them Sunni or Shia, it's the same thing. Oh dear. Your anti-British views are booming out loud and clear.
"that with the Good Friday Agreement and us all being members of the EU most of the outstanding issues were being confined to history." - No, the GFA was just a plaster over the wound. The EU part of that is laughable. Don't believe everything they print in the Guardian.
"It is people like the DUP who do not accept the majority (and not try to over turn any decision democratically)." - Oh the irony. So, they are just like you over Brexit.
I also support the right of the people of Ireland as a whole to decide their own future. However, there must be something in place to protect the Protestant Community or violence will return to the streets of NI. You try and throw some stupid "Rangers & Celtic" barb in my direction yet you are ignoring the bleeding obvious. You talk about democracy, and that is a fundamental right that we all support, but NI is a special case. The religious issues there cannot be underestimated. It may seem alien to you, but until you have witnessed it up close and personal, you'll never understand the deep seated emotions that it can raise. It is a deep rooted hatred that is very difficult to describe in words. It really is very childish to attempt to lower it to a "Rangers v Celtic" level and demonstrates that you have no idea. You cannot just tell the Protestant Community to 'suck it up' if a democratic vote goes against their wishes, health or safety. NI is not like that. If you think that a vote to re-unite Ireland will bring peace you are sadly deluded.
By the way, I am not a Catholic nor a Protestant. I am actually an Athiest. I don't support nor object to either side. I do object to seeing innocent people killed though. You seem to think that it's just "karma".
Your "karma at it's most delicious" comment is still grotesque and you should be ashamed at making it.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on May 5, 2022 20:27:38 GMT
Ha ha. That line reads more like the "Rangers or Celtic" arguments in Glasgow. But happy to take it on. For me there are two groups of Nationalists in NI, one group who want to be identified with mainland "Unionist" nationalism wrapped in a cloak of a warped Protestant Christianity. They find themselves in an enclave of 6 counties, formed as a separate entity and coming into being in 1921, as part of an attempt by Westminster to quell the growing insurrection in Ireland generally. The Irish Free State was born who never accepted the Westminster imposed segregation. Could this be labelled "nationalism", and at its crudest led to violence in the form of the IRA. So here is the rub. Ireland is one country, it was us, the Brits, who segregated it. It is people like the DUP who do not accept the majority (and not try to over turn any decision democratically). So, obviously I support the right of the people of Ireland as a whole to decide their own future. Any democrat would. Thus nobody more relieved than me that they now pursue this through the ballot box. The DUP, have no such country to be nationalist about. The 6 counties are a construct of Westminster for political and administrative convenience. Thus they hang on the coat tails of English tradition and nationalism which, laughably, the majority of younger English born after 1980, reject. The funny thing is (but I am not laughing) that with the Good Friday Agreement and us all being members of the EU most of the outstanding issues were being confined to history. Border? What Border. Now with Brexit, a pig's breakfast of an "protocol" to cover customs issues, here we are again. And it's the same perverse nationalism creeping back into our lives. Union Jack's flanking rather stupid politicians like Johnson, and the language, oh god the language. So, a bit long winded in explanation of my view, which is the DUP and their ilk represent a laughable form of nationalism which in itself has no basis in the history of the peoples of Ireland, other than some sick religious fantasy. You could label them Sunni or Shia, it's the same thing. Oh dear. Your anti-British views are booming out loud and clear.
"that with the Good Friday Agreement and us all being members of the EU most of the outstanding issues were being confined to history." - No, the GFA was just a plaster over the wound. The EU part of that is laughable. Don't believe everything they print in the Guardian.
"It is people like the DUP who do not accept the majority (and not try to over turn any decision democratically)." - Oh the irony. So, they are just like you over Brexit.
I also support the right of the people of Ireland as a whole to decide their own future. However, there must be something in place to protect the Protestant Community or violence will return to the streets of NI. You try and throw some stupid "Rangers & Celtic" barb in my direction yet you are ignoring the bleeding obvious. You talk about democracy, and that is a fundamental right that we all support, but NI is a special case. The religious issues there cannot be underestimated. It may seem alien to you, but until you have witnessed it up close and personal, you'll never understand the deep seated emotions that it can raise. It is a deep rooted hatred that is very difficult to describe in words. It really is very childish to attempt to lower it to a "Rangers v Celtic" level and demonstrates that you have no idea. You cannot just tell the Protestant Community to 'suck it up' if a democratic vote goes against their wishes, health or safety. NI is not like that. If you think that a vote to re-unite Ireland will bring peace you are sadly deluded.
By the way, I am not a Catholic nor a Protestant. I am actually an Athiest. I don't support nor object to either side. I do object to seeing innocent people killed though. You seem to think that it's just "karma".
Your "karma at it's most delicious" comment is still grotesque and you should be ashamed at making it.
Nothing you have written dissuades me from my belief. The central tenet of your argument is that some fanatic core belief in a chosen faith obviates those that believe that from accepting a democratic outcome. Really? That argument opens the door to Sharia Law doesn't it? What's the difference in your logic? No, we should never have done it and the people of Ireland in its entirety should decide how they want to be governed. If the Unionists lose that vote, so be it. Get up and argue the case another day. But suck it up they must. Let's see what tonight brings.
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