icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Are we ..
Jan 24, 2022 14:20:28 GMT
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Post by icegas on Jan 24, 2022 14:20:28 GMT
Going to war with Russia? When I say we..I mean the west?
I would do everything in my power to get out of this situation as nuclear powers fighting, or even pushing their chests out at each other is not a good thing for anyone.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 24, 2022 14:54:28 GMT
Going to war with Russia? When I say we..I mean the west? I would do everything in my power to get out of this situation as nuclear powers fighting, or even pushing their chests out at each other is not a good thing for anyone. It's incredible that here we are in 2022, and one European country is threatening to invade another European country because..........Well, there is no valid reason ! If anything is to happen it will happen soon as you just cannot keep that number of troops and equipment in one place for too long. China are watching with interest as they will perceive a lack of response from the West as a green light for them to invade Taiwan. Biden appears to be weak, and his comments the other day gave Russia the go-ahead for a limited invasion. The EU have already prepared a strongly worded letter, in a harsh font, to be delivered to the Russians in the event of an invasion. Germany are terrified of upsetting the Russians as they are dependent on them for oil and gas. British military flights taking weapons to the Ukraine are forced to fly around German airspace as the Germans refuse permission for the flights. Germany has also stopped Estonia from supplying weapons that originated in Germany. However, Germany has promised to supply a Field Hospital....and I'm not joking there either. The UK will not go to war with Russia over the Ukraine. However, the next time you hear someone moaning about the amount of money spent on Defence you can just mention this situation. People like Putin will only take notice of strength. The threat of sanctions will only make him laugh. You should never show weakness to a bully. |
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Post by alftupper on Jan 26, 2022 14:40:58 GMT
Going to war with Russia? When I say we..I mean the west? I would do everything in my power to get out of this situation as nuclear powers fighting, or even pushing their chests out at each other is not a good thing for anyone. Biden appears to be weak, and his comments the other day gave Russia the go-ahead for a limited invasion. Which is prob what will happen. Putin will try to hive off some of the majority ethnic Russian parts of the Ukraine, such as Donetsk in the Donbass region. Much as he did with Crimea. Little by little....
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 26, 2022 16:36:49 GMT
Biden appears to be weak, and his comments the other day gave Russia the go-ahead for a limited invasion. Which is prob what will happen. Putin will try to hive off some of the majority ethnic Russian parts of the Ukraine, such as Donetsk in the Donbass region. Much as he did with Crimea. Little by little....
I get the feeling that he has already completed his nibbles (Crimea etc) without any opposition, and now he wants to eat the whole thing. |
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Post by alftupper on Jan 27, 2022 8:06:20 GMT
Which is prob what will happen. Putin will try to hive off some of the majority ethnic Russian parts of the Ukraine, such as Donetsk in the Donbass region. Much as he did with Crimea. Little by little....
I get the feeling that he has already completed his nibbles (Crimea etc) without any opposition, and now he wants to eat the whole thing. I`m sure he does want to, but he`s not insane. I honestly can`t see Russian tanks rolling into Kiev. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 27, 2022 8:38:06 GMT
I get the feeling that he has already completed his nibbles (Crimea etc) without any opposition, and now he wants to eat the whole thing. I`m sure he does want to, but he`s not insane. I honestly can`t see Russian tanks rolling into Kiev. I don't think he has enough forces built up to completely invade the Ukraine. Reports suggest he has 120,000 troops lined-up. Not enough, but enough to take a big chunk. I agree that Kiev is probably too far for him. I see the Russian Northern Fleet are conducting exercises off the West coast of Ireland in the coming week(s). A nice strategic place to be if trouble breaks out. |
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jan 27, 2022 21:23:00 GMT
There are some people in this world who desperately need assassinating.
My top 3 would be Putin, the Chinese leader Xi Ping and our dear friend Kim.
Is it a coincidence that they’re all Communist b*****ds?
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jan 27, 2022 21:24:26 GMT
I`m sure he does want to, but he`s not insane. I honestly can`t see Russian tanks rolling into Kiev. I don't think he has enough forces built up to completely invade the Ukraine. Reports suggest he has 120,000 troops lined-up. Not enough, but enough to take a big chunk. I agree that Kiev is probably too far for him. I see the Russian Northern Fleet are conducting exercises off the West coast of Ireland in the coming week(s). A nice strategic place to be if trouble breaks out. Hopefully we’ve got a squadron or two of Exocet Cruise missiles lined up on them. |
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Post by alftupper on Jan 27, 2022 22:45:17 GMT
Tell them to stay out of it this time, Nobby.
But if they feel that they really must invade, tell them to at least wait until winter`s over, and to stay away from cities on the Volga.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 28, 2022 7:26:29 GMT
I don't think he has enough forces built up to completely invade the Ukraine. Reports suggest he has 120,000 troops lined-up. Not enough, but enough to take a big chunk. I agree that Kiev is probably too far for him. I see the Russian Northern Fleet are conducting exercises off the West coast of Ireland in the coming week(s). A nice strategic place to be if trouble breaks out. Hopefully we’ve got a squadron or two of Exocet Cruise missiles lined up on them. That is old technology. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 28, 2022 7:27:58 GMT
Tell them to stay out of it this time, Nobby. But if they feel that they really must invade, tell them to at least wait until winter`s over, and to stay away from cities on the Volga. The worrying part Alf is that this time round we've got to have the Italians on our side. |
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Post by alftupper on Jan 28, 2022 7:42:39 GMT
Tell them to stay out of it this time, Nobby. But if they feel that they really must invade, tell them to at least wait until winter`s over, and to stay away from cities on the Volga. The worrying part Alf is that this time round we've got to have the Italians on our side. I shouldn`t worry too much. By the time this is over, they`ll have changed sides twice. |
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
Joined: June 2014
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Are we ..
Jan 28, 2022 10:52:28 GMT
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Post by lostinspace on Jan 28, 2022 10:52:28 GMT
Tell them to stay out of it this time, Nobby. But if they feel that they really must invade, tell them to at least wait until winter`s over, and to stay away from cities on the Volga. The worrying part Alf is that this time round we've got to have the Italians on our side. Would there have to be an H&S evaluation first,also having the 2nd jab should be compulsory don't you think 🤔 |
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 20, 2022 17:54:18 GMT
IF.... as it seems more likely that there will be some sort of incursion onto Ukraine soil, not entirely sure what HE is trying to gain here...and no western military response, does this give the plank in charge in Moscow an upper hand in the "way of the world"...and how hard would monetary/supply penalties hit them when you consider the amount of so called money laundering/scamming this country has allegedly carried out and is capable of doing ?
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Are we ..
Feb 20, 2022 18:35:39 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 20, 2022 18:35:39 GMT
IF.... as it seems more likely that there will be some sort of incursion onto Ukraine soil, not entirely sure what HE is trying to gain here...and no western military response, does this give the plank in charge in Moscow an upper hand in the "way of the world"...and how hard would monetary/supply penalties hit them when you consider the amount of so called money laundering/scamming this country has allegedly carried out and is capable of doing ? The GDP of Russia is roughly half the size of the UK. It's just that they spend an awful lot of it on their military and they have a lot of young people who they conscript. But they have oil and gas. Which becomes useless if they can't sell it to the west and London and New York freezes them out of the currency markets. We could screw them on sixpence without firing a bullet if we are prepared to endure the disruption in the economy and the shock of gas shortages. Once we get past that, that could be Putin done for good. |
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 20, 2022 18:52:34 GMT
IF.... as it seems more likely that there will be some sort of incursion onto Ukraine soil, not entirely sure what HE is trying to gain here...and no western military response, does this give the plank in charge in Moscow an upper hand in the "way of the world"...and how hard would monetary/supply penalties hit them when you consider the amount of so called money laundering/scamming this country has allegedly carried out and is capable of doing ? The GDP of Russia is roughly half the size of the UK. It's just that they spend an awful lot of it on their military and they have a lot of young people who they conscript. But they have oil and gas. Which becomes useless if they can't sell it to the west and London and New York freezes them out of the currency markets. We could screw them on sixpence without firing a bullet if we are prepared to endure the disruption in the economy and the shock of gas shortages. Once we get past that, that could be Putin done for good. So bearing that in mind.. other than trying to return to USSR old style and trying to "reclaim the countries under that old flag", what is he trying to achieve, show off an army of size to [try to] create a threat to the western world..... |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Are we ..
Feb 20, 2022 19:01:47 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 20, 2022 19:01:47 GMT
The GDP of Russia is roughly half the size of the UK. It's just that they spend an awful lot of it on their military and they have a lot of young people who they conscript. But they have oil and gas. Which becomes useless if they can't sell it to the west and London and New York freezes them out of the currency markets. We could screw them on sixpence without firing a bullet if we are prepared to endure the disruption in the economy and the shock of gas shortages. Once we get past that, that could be Putin done for good. So bearing that in mind.. other than trying to return to USSR old style and trying to "reclaim the countries under that old flag", what is he trying to achieve, show off an army of size to [try to] create a threat to the western world..... In my opinion He is running scared of western style democracy (with all its faults and chaos) creeping over his borders. Witness the brutal suppression in Belorussia recently, the invasion and separation of provinces in Ukraine that bordered Russia and the murder of protesters in Kyiv in 2014. Like all lunatic tyrants, he is scared of the light. |
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Post by alftupper on Feb 20, 2022 22:24:22 GMT
IF.... as it seems more likely that there will be some sort of incursion onto Ukraine soil, not entirely sure what HE is trying to gain here...and no western military response, does this give the plank in charge in Moscow an upper hand in the "way of the world"...and how hard would monetary/supply penalties hit them when you consider the amount of so called money laundering/scamming this country has allegedly carried out and is capable of doing ? The GDP of Russia is roughly half the size of the UK. It's just that they spend an awful lot of it on their military and they have a lot of young people who they conscript. But they have oil and gas. Which becomes useless if they can't sell it to the west and London and New York freezes them out of the currency markets. Ain`t necessarily so.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Are we ..
Feb 20, 2022 22:47:07 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 20, 2022 22:47:07 GMT
The GDP of Russia is roughly half the size of the UK. It's just that they spend an awful lot of it on their military and they have a lot of young people who they conscript. But they have oil and gas. Which becomes useless if they can't sell it to the west and London and New York freezes them out of the currency markets. Ain`t necessarily so.
From the Reuters article you quoted. "The gas sales alone could generate around $37.5 billion over 25 years," That's $1.5 billion per annum. Decent, must nothing like enough to offset western withdrawal from their market with the added cost of sanctions. In 2020 Russia exported 174 billion cubic meters to Europe. This deal with China states 10 billion cubic meters per year. Btw, one F35 costs $78M. Of which the UK has ordered 138 at an expected cost of $10.7billion. Just for context. |
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Post by alftupper on Feb 21, 2022 7:30:29 GMT
From the Reuters article you quoted. "The gas sales alone could generate around $37.5 billion over 25 years," That's $1.5 billion per annum. Decent, must nothing like enough to offset western withdrawal from their market with the added cost of sanctions. In 2020 Russia exported 174 billion cubic meters to Europe. This deal with China states 10 billion cubic meters per year. Btw, one F35 costs $78M. Of which the UK has ordered 138 at an expected cost of $10.7billion. Just for context. Fair point. Unless Putin puts his military ambitions above all economic considerations, I can`t see him invading the entire Ukraine. He`ll continue to foment discord, where the local populations are majority Russian.
And he`s got the leaders of the western world dancing attendant on him, albeit at the far end of a table the length of Keynsham High Sreet. He`s getting what he wants, without his tank commanders setting their satnavs for Kiev. Sorted.
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