Tories in trouble in the UK?

I think the question is how long do we have to wait after a referendum until we can say that we’ve had enough time for that democratic vote to be fully enacted and realised. If 2016 was an election, the elected parties would have had to have stood re-election by now.

It’s been over 5 years now. By the time a debate has been properly conducted about whether or not we should have another referendum and another referendum is planned and campaigned for, it will have likely been 7 or 8 years at the very least. If Brexit has been such a big success in the timeframe that was promised by the leave campaign, then what do they have to fear in renewing their democratic mandate, a good few years after the original vote?

When was the result implemented?

Given the state of the EU, their conduct in response to the referendum outcome and how they conducted themselves with the vaccine, I strongly suspect that the result would be far more decisive, as was demonstrated at the last general election, when a fat bloke who won't even tell the country how many children he has, for fear of getting the number wrong, won with a landslide, on a daft 3 word slogan, 'Get Brexit Done'.

Anyway, I didn't vote to join any socialist bloc, but it took 40 years to have an opportunity to get ourselves out of it.

No, that was the narrative set by the chuckle bros, Cameron and Osborne. 
I repeat there is no such thing as a once in a lifetime vote, for anything, in a functioning democracy.
That claim fits snugly into the definition of a dictatorship. 

How many opportunities in the preceding 40+ years did those of us who took a different point of view have an opportunity to have our opinion put to the test via the ballot box?

None is the answer.

So don't start crying and expecting things reversed 20 minutes after the result was finally implemented.

I'm not sure what's so difficult for you to grasp, in Britain the majority opinion is set against the EU.

Anyway, it's progress of a sort that you've stopped asking whether EU policies were adversely affecting people in this country. And you didn't stop asking because nobody could provide examples, you stopped because you got snowed under with policies that caused people here problems.

I think it's a shame that the HS2 link to Leeds isn't going ahead. Shortening the (already quick) journey from Birmingham to London makes no financial sense.
It costs billions and just keeps the wealth in the south east. Not really 'levelling up' is it?
What's really needed is investment across the Pennine route. The rail links east to west there are bloody third world.
HS2 is a head-line. So what.
It keeps the far more damaging "sleaze" stories away for a bit.

Most of it is 'score settling' because he just couldn't accept that he had lost, wanted as many votes as were needed until the 'thick' people agreed with him, and he kept throwing down the same challenge, it was;

Name one EU policy that has adversely affected you.

He had loads put forward, defended, explained and demonstrated, but kept putting the challenge forward as if it hadn't been accepted and answered.

As for the referendum itself, we'll see, far too early to tell, but I'm doing fine as a result of early changes that have been made.

I'm not laying out specifics on a public forum, but would be happy to do so via PM. 

Bit of a shame that we wasted years arguing in Westminster, but you know whose fault that was.

Love your description of Starter.
The whole point of HS2 was capacity, more than pure speed. As was so eloquently explained on R4 this morning, freeing the existing lines of speedy inter city services allows for expanded stopping services.
What the Tories are proposing won't do that, it will be billions spent for very little gain with maximum disruption.

Competent 🤭🤭🤭🤭

Boris should have stepped aside or even been shoved sideways after achieving Brexit, Though of late ,until this fiasco he had seemed to have gained a bit of respectability!! But this surely is the final straw, as for Sunak not too sure, he does speak well but does he have the backup within?, I don't know, but like the other lot can't see anything that stands out as leader material

Think you’re both correct. Pretty sure the Tories will ditch BJ before the next election. He did what he was meant to do, get us out of Europe after TM’s logjam in 2019. But once he got his very large majority it gave him some security for a time. But his multitude of u-turns, poor communication, breaking of election promises esp in the north, means he is running out of time to get that ‘good feeling’. His evening-up agenda is looking very fragile and the many headlines around sleaze and his performance in parliament is so woeful that he will likely be gone well before the next election.

But that in itself gives a problem: who in either party comes anywhere near to showing themselves as a leader? I have no idea. Looking at the last few PMs; Blair had no experience of being a minister yet succeeded at selling a vision of sorts but it could be argued that he relied on the detailed planning of Brown to help create the conditions to win elections. Brown had been Chancellor. But little other ministerial experience, in other words, vast experience in one area, none in any other area and not really a leader. Cameron, a political adviser who wanted to be Blair and was articulate and “smooth” but not, imo, a leader as we saw when it went wrong for him regarding the referendum result. He was out of the game asap. Not prepared to resolve the issue he had been responsible for helping create. And never held ministerial office perform being PM. So that leaves us with TM of recent PMs who have had ministerial experience but was unable to solve the issue she was left with. (If John Major called some of his colleagues ‘b*****ds’ then TM probably could have done the same) And her leadership, or whatever it was in the 2017 GE, was awful and she sleptwalked her way to a practical defeat despite clinging onto power afterwards.

My point: Who the heck is able to lead the country in the next decade? Sunak? Little experience but he loves to spend money, esp our money. He seems comfortable giving positive headlines but less so with negative ones. Who knows. Any others? Liz Truss seems very driven by completing trade agreements and has done as well as any minister in the post-Brexit world. She delivers a clear, strong message but we will have to wait for a few years to see the depth of her successes. Michael Gove? Not popular but his record as a minister and his reputation amongst his staff was always high though he seems to have slipped down the list since 2019. Perhaps someone we don’t know much about at the moment may come through between now and 2022/2023 when decisions may be made regarding this. 

I have ignored any Labour leaders but perhaps Starmer will grow into his role. But he’ll need a deputy he trusts and can communicate with. Doesn’t look as if Angela Raynor had a scooby-doo about the current re-shuffle going on so that won’t last. And before they come anywhere near to an alternative government they will need to show they are an effective opposition, able to hold this current government to account. And after the number of own goals from BJ and this government in the past year Starmer should have had some easy wins but his team still seem unable to challenge and show themselves as an alternative government so far. That may change I suppose.

In other words few leaders around but a vacancy exists.