absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306 
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Post by absent on Nov 3, 2021 19:51:44 GMT
In voting to put themselves above any independent scrutiny, have the Tories inadvertently shown the electorate exactly what they're up to?
I won't hold my breath.
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baselswh
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,578
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Post by baselswh on Nov 3, 2021 20:12:45 GMT
Labour are still two different parties,too much infighting and some very poor MPs.I think some may never forget Labours weak,lieing and treacherous Brexit,apart from the Labour Leave people.
Until they get their act together,the Conservative Party are laughing.Sometimes at us,but still the Conservatives are preferred.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Joined: June 2014
Posts: 6,544
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 3, 2021 22:34:11 GMT
In voting to put themselves above any independent scrutiny, have the Tories inadvertently shown the electorate exactly what they're up to? I won't hold my breath. A sad day for the Conservatives. A sad day that the opposition can't do more to hold them to account. |
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Post by alftupper on Nov 4, 2021 7:33:12 GMT
In voting to put themselves above any independent scrutiny, have the Tories inadvertently shown the electorate exactly what they're up to? I won't hold my breath. A sad day for the Conservatives. A sad day that the opposition can't do more to hold them to account. Agreed. I`ve never voted Labour in my life, but I can`t see that it`s healthy to have no serious opposition to any government. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 4, 2021 7:51:42 GMT
A sad day for the Conservatives. A sad day that the opposition can't do more to hold them to account. Agreed. I`ve never voted Labour in my life, but I can`t see that it`s healthy to have no serious opposition to any government. Here's a thought. It is an oft repeated claim that you need a strong opposition to hold the government to account. The German political system is designed to ensure that all governments are coalition governments. Before the general election in Sept the official Opposition Party in the Bundestag was the AfD Party, and they only had 12%% of the national vote, and nobody would work with them. They were the official Opposition Party because all the others were in Government ! I don't have any particular view either way so I'm just throwing this out there, but is the claim that a government needs a strong opposition party in reality necessary?
PS - Since the general election in Sept Germany are no nearer to getting any form of agreement for the next coalition government. Merkel is still Chancellor although she wants to Foxtrot Oscar pretty quickly.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Nov 4, 2021 8:27:37 GMT
In voting to put themselves above any independent scrutiny, have the Tories inadvertently shown the electorate exactly what they're up to? I won't hold my breath. A sad day for the Conservatives. A sad day that the opposition can't do more to hold them to account. An even worse day for us, and Parliamentary democracy. But Nobby has a point, is it time to move on and evolve our system of Government? |
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 4, 2021 9:06:28 GMT
A sad day for the Conservatives. A sad day that the opposition can't do more to hold them to account. An even worse day for us, and Parliamentary democracy. But Nobby has a point, is it time to move on and evolve our system of Government? Surely the only body with the legal power to do that would be the current Government... The best we can hope for is that Boris is persuaded to step down before the next election and there is reform within the party. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Nov 4, 2021 9:41:59 GMT
An even worse day for us, and Parliamentary democracy. But Nobby has a point, is it time to move on and evolve our system of Government? Surely the only body with the legal power to do that would be the current Government... The best we can hope for is that Boris is persuaded to step down before the next election and there is reform within the party. Power corrupts, as they say. This Government is displaying the hallmarks of being drunk on power, displaying contempt for due process. Twas alway thus with the Tories. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 4, 2021 9:47:28 GMT
Surely the only body with the legal power to do that would be the current Government... The best we can hope for is that Boris is persuaded to step down before the next election and there is reform within the party. Power corrupts, as they say. This Government is displaying the hallmarks of being drunk on power, displaying contempt for due process. Twas alway thus with the Tories. Contempt for Due Process? Have you really looked into what the vote was about yesterday, or are you just following the headlines? It is the lack of Due Process that is the problem. |
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absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306
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Post by absent on Nov 4, 2021 10:14:28 GMT
I'm pretty sure it's the money Owen Patterson took from his donors in order to lobby on their behalf that is the problem, and the argument about due process is a deliberate attempt to discredit the due process before Boris Johnson had to face it himself.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Nov 4, 2021 10:22:27 GMT
Power corrupts, as they say. This Government is displaying the hallmarks of being drunk on power, displaying contempt for due process. Twas alway thus with the Tories. Contempt for Due Process? Have you really looked into what the vote was about yesterday, or are you just following the headlines? It is the lack of Due Process that is the problem. Yes, but if there is an issue, there may well be, they have had ten years to address it. So why now? I agree with Astijevs. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 4, 2021 10:43:04 GMT
No, the lack of Due Process is the problem. Patterson was found 'guilty' by someone who had not even spoken to him. Had not listened to any supporting evidence from witnesses. He was found guilty without being given the chance to put his side of the story across. There is also no appeal allowed against the decision. There was no Due Process. The vote in Parliament yesterday was against the way the investigation was conducted and the lack of Due Process. It is a deeply flawed system.
Anyone here know just what he lobbied for?
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absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306
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Post by absent on Nov 4, 2021 10:47:28 GMT
Improved food standards, I think?
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 4, 2021 10:48:08 GMT
Surely the only body with the legal power to do that would be the current Government... The best we can hope for is that Boris is persuaded to step down before the next election and there is reform within the party. Power corrupts, as they say. This Government is displaying the hallmarks of being drunk on power, displaying contempt for due process. Twas alway thus with the Tories. You are aware that the vote passed by 18 votes, yet 28 Labour MP's didn't vote? |
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absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306
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Post by absent on Nov 4, 2021 10:52:09 GMT
Power corrupts, as they say. This Government is displaying the hallmarks of being drunk on power, displaying contempt for due process. Twas alway thus with the Tories. You are aware that the vote passed by 18 votes, yet 28 Labour MP's didn't vote? You're aware that when MPs can't vote, they are paired with opposition MPs so the votes remain fair? All 28 Labour MPs were paired. |
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absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306
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Post by absent on Nov 4, 2021 10:52:40 GMT
The government have backtracked. Apparently the due process might have been alright after all..
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 4, 2021 11:08:55 GMT
Improved food standards, I think? He raise genuine concerns about Nitrates, Antibiotics and other chemicals in some milk and pork products that had been linked to health issues. This did indeed benefit the two companies who pay him as they supply similar products that do not contain these harmful chemicals. The payments he received from these companies was listed quite openly in the Members Interests Register that they have to declare.
Chris Bryant MP (who posted pictures of himself in his y-fronts on a gay dating website) has stated that if Mr Patterson had just said 'sorry' that that would have been the end of it.
Meanwhile, Claudia Webbe MP is being sentenced today after being found guilty of a two-year harrassment charge, including threats to pour acid over someone. She has not been suspended from the House.
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absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306
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Post by absent on Nov 4, 2021 11:19:16 GMT
Improved food standards, I think? He raise genuine concerns about Nitrates, Antibiotics and other chemicals in some milk and pork products that had been linked to health issues. This did indeed benefit the two companies who pay him as they supply similar products that do not contain these harmful chemicals. The payments he received from these companies was listed quite openly in the Members Interests Register that they have to declare.
Chris Bryant MP (who posted pictures of himself in his y-fronts on a gay dating website) has stated that if Mr Patterson had just said 'sorry' that that would have been the end of it.
Meanwhile, Claudia Webbe MP is being sentenced today after being found guilty of a two-year harrassment charge, including threats to pour acid over someone. She has not been suspended from the House.
So we are agreed Owen Patterson broke the rules regarding lobbying for hire? Claudia Webbe will receive a suitable punishment for her transgression, I'm sure. Did you enjoy Mr Bryant's pictures personally or was there some other reason to mention them? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 1,586
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Post by oldie on Nov 4, 2021 11:22:39 GMT
He raise genuine concerns about Nitrates, Antibiotics and other chemicals in some milk and pork products that had been linked to health issues. This did indeed benefit the two companies who pay him as they supply similar products that do not contain these harmful chemicals. The payments he received from these companies was listed quite openly in the Members Interests Register that they have to declare.
Chris Bryant MP (who posted pictures of himself in his y-fronts on a gay dating website) has stated that if Mr Patterson had just said 'sorry' that that would have been the end of it.
Meanwhile, Claudia Webbe MP is being sentenced today after being found guilty of a two-year harrassment charge, including threats to pour acid over someone. She has not been suspended from the House.
So we are agreed Owen Patterson broke the rules regarding lobbying for hire? Claudia Webbe will receive a suitable punishment for her transgression, I'm sure. Did you enjoy Mr Bryant's pictures personally or was there some other reason to mention them? Sorry Nobby But that last quip by Astiyevs made me laugh. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Nov 4, 2021 11:27:34 GMT
He raise genuine concerns about Nitrates, Antibiotics and other chemicals in some milk and pork products that had been linked to health issues. This did indeed benefit the two companies who pay him as they supply similar products that do not contain these harmful chemicals. The payments he received from these companies was listed quite openly in the Members Interests Register that they have to declare.
Chris Bryant MP (who posted pictures of himself in his y-fronts on a gay dating website) has stated that if Mr Patterson had just said 'sorry' that that would have been the end of it.
Meanwhile, Claudia Webbe MP is being sentenced today after being found guilty of a two-year harrassment charge, including threats to pour acid over someone. She has not been suspended from the House.
So we are agreed Owen Patterson broke the rules regarding lobbying for hire? Claudia Webbe will receive a suitable punishment for her transgression, I'm sure. Did you enjoy Mr Bryant's pictures personally or was there some other reason to mention them? I mentioned Bryant and his underpants as it is a quaint thought that he is involved in regulating MP's Standards. FFS, You've just got to laugh at that  The mere thought that MP's have standards is quite funny in itself. Claudia Webbe - We'll see.
Lobbying for hire? His interest had been openly declared in the Members Interest Register. Is it any different to Unions funding the Labour Party so that the Labour Party should push the interests of the Union? It's all double-standards and fake outrage.
For the record, I hate politicians of any party. Hypocritical two-faced barstewards the lot of them.
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The mere thought that MP's have standards is quite funny in itself.