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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 8:46:36 GMT
For those that missed "The Brilliant" Sam Frost's article in the Bristol Post.
Bristol Rovers need to get a grip after another regrettable episode of the club losing its way.
Bristol Rovers is a community club but it is alienating some supporters and parts of the wider football world.
Bristol Rovers need to get a grip. This is a club that, for two years, has lurched from one mistake to another and the need to stop the rot is becoming increasingly urgent.
On the pitch, it is a disastrous spell for the Gas, plunging from the top end of League One to the swamp-like depths of League Two in just 23 chaotic months. Their bullish expectation that promotion was inevitable appears terribly misguided with 14 games on the board and Rovers just four points clear of the bottom two.
And off the pitch, the club is finding new ways to alienate supporters and harm its image in the wider football community. Sunday's decision to stay silent when asked for an explanation of Joey B*****'s holocaust analogy beggars belief.
The manager probably used the term in a more general context than specifically citing the Nazi genocide of Jews and other minorities in the 1940s, but it is a word that has no place in the vernacular of a football manager bemoaning his players' propensity to commit errors.
I'm sure some Gasheads took no offence whatsoever to B*****'s comment, but that word carries significance for millions around the globe. To use it in such a trivial context is wrong.
The BBC reports Bristol City councillor Fabian Breckels has labelled B*****'s choice of words "appalling" and he believes the manager should consider his position.
A simple, brief apology or, at the very least, explanation from the club for the manager's poor choice of phrasing would have sufficed. People would have moved on, but to bury heads in the sand and say nothing shows a lack of accountability and professionalism, prompting only more disillusionment from supporters.
Saying nothing has made things worse. Rovers, historically, have been amateurish at times, almost charmingly so. But recent episodes have been different.
After all, this is a football club that has been inclusive of all colours and creeds. It is a community-first club, so for Rovers to not recognise that a slip of the tongue from the face of the club could be perceived as greatly offensive to some people in Bristol and beyond is another self-inflicted error.
Only a few months back, the club's communications caused outrage when commenting on B***** being charged with assaulting his wife – which he denies and will contest at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court in December – and owner Wael Al-Qadi was required to save face with an open letter a few hours later.
It is sad to say it, but Bristol Rovers is a club that is not conducting itself correctly often enough. Last week, for example, the manager was taking aim at board member Tommy Widdrington in his pre-match press conference – his opportunity to galvanise supporters and try to lift their spirits. Instead, he was airing dirty laundry in public when the question he was asked was completely different to the one he answered.
Where is the unity, the synergy required to be successful in the most competitive of industries?
Bristol Rovers need to get a grip.
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Post by baselswh on Oct 26, 2021 8:46:54 GMT
What part of that do you object to, Pop? The tautology? The part that my Great Great Grandmother Cordelia Jones from South Wales gave me. 🙂
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Post by alftupper on Oct 26, 2021 9:12:08 GMT
As I said in my post above, you are right, the answer is yes. But only by concocting a criteria that targeting the other groups has to be as uniform as the targeting of the Jews, and making a judgement for each of the other groups against that criteria. Personally, I don’t think this can be done without dispute and some fair argument other groupings were hated by the Nazi’s on a PAR with the hatred of the Jews, the targeting far from haphazard, and cruelty endured not always very much short of those of the Jews. It’s not straightforward to be fair to Holocaust educationalists, this part of it, though broadening the groupings and mentioning other numbers does seem to be happening more down the years. 5,000 - 15,000 Homosexuals does seem to suggest a strong degree of targeting and lack of clemency? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victimsThe further question is then, once caught, we’re they treated to same fate as the Jews? If placed into a separate camp without execution chamber, so the greatest threat is malnutrition, that is not the same fate I would agree. No one will know numbers as the table in the article suggests, but at least six million Jews. And the 11 million non Jews? Even 11 could be disputed as being too low. Do you include those who suffered far better fate than the Jews, for they were merely quickly rounded up, executed and dumped in a mass grave as the Nazi’s pushed East, as part of the Holocaust? Which is why I have said in my posts, ring fence the six million Jews and call it Shoah. And let the education place what happened to those six million in the context of a millennia of virulent anti semitism in Europe. And then a better word than Holocaust for the whole total number targeted and murdered we already have a strong word, genocide. Education can then link WWII genocide with Ataturk’s Armenian Genocide - for the League of Nations to do nothing inspired the Nazi’s to be believe they too could get away with genocide. Guilt for the WWII genocide has to fall on the League of Nations. But even before WWII the Jews had had enough of constant injustice, and were turning to Zionism. Somewhere to live securely, and after a very long history without that security, who can begrudge them that, and insist they stay in Europe? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Struma My own thoughts? I’d rather go down having a pop and taking bullets that meekly following, sheeplike, others into a certain death. I have nothing against any race, colour or creed but i do take umbrage with having no fortitude and i have already said enough mods, please delete if people are offended by this. One thing i will say is they are certainly having none of it now and i do take issue with what is happening to Palestinians. David Ben Gurion would have agreed with you, K.P. He was deeply unhappy at the manner in which so many Jews went supinely to their deaths. ( Not always, I know. ) He was determined that it wouldn`t happen again, and it hasn`t happened again. If you wrong them, shall they not revenge?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 26, 2021 9:44:47 GMT
My own thoughts? I’d rather go down having a pop and taking bullets that meekly following, sheeplike, others into a certain death. I have nothing against any race, colour or creed but i do take umbrage with having no fortitude and i have already said enough mods, please delete if people are offended by this. One thing i will say is they are certainly having none of it now and i do take issue with what is happening to Palestinians. David Ben Gurion would have agreed with you, K.P. He was deeply unhappy at the manner in which so many Jews went supinely to their deaths. ( Not always, I know. ) He was determined that it wouldn`t happen again, and it hasn`t happened again. If you wrong them, shall they not revenge?
Ok, My parents were both taken prisoner, dad by the soviets, mum by the Germans. The Polish, Hungarians and others, always kept trying to escape, even if this meant death, my father was very open in saying the bulk of Jewish faith in the 1st polish armoured division were reluctant to fight and would have accidents just prior to front line action. He and my mother truly found it beyond belief that they went to their deaths without at least trying to fight as they saw their deaths as dishonourable and cowardly. Ben Gurion was right in their eyes and, the more i watch and read, the more i cant understand why they seemingly went to slaughter, without any resistance. It’s an emotive topic but I’m just relaying their own thoughts, dad got out and fought in the second front and mum escaped and fought with the polish free army. They never ever gave uo
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 26, 2021 9:49:34 GMT
My own thoughts? I’d rather go down having a pop and taking bullets that meekly following, sheeplike, others into a certain death. I have nothing against any race, colour or creed but i do take umbrage with having no fortitude and i have already said enough mods, please delete if people are offended by this. One thing i will say is they are certainly having none of it now and i do take issue with what is happening to Palestinians. David Ben Gurion would have agreed with you, K.P. He was deeply unhappy at the manner in which so many Jews went supinely to their deaths. ( Not always, I know. ) He was determined that it wouldn`t happen again, and it hasn`t happened again. If you wrong them, shall they not revenge?
One of my favourite words, supinely. Not often used but a great word.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 26, 2021 9:55:20 GMT
For those that missed "The Brilliant" Sam Frost's article in the Bristol Post. Bristol Rovers need to get a grip after another regrettable episode of the club losing its way. Bristol Rovers is a community club but it is alienating some supporters and parts of the wider football world. Bristol Rovers need to get a grip. This is a club that, for two years, has lurched from one mistake to another and the need to stop the rot is becoming increasingly urgent. On the pitch, it is a disastrous spell for the Gas, plunging from the top end of League One to the swamp-like depths of League Two in just 23 chaotic months. Their bullish expectation that promotion was inevitable appears terribly misguided with 14 games on the board and Rovers just four points clear of the bottom two. And off the pitch, the club is finding new ways to alienate supporters and harm its image in the wider football community. Sunday's decision to stay silent when asked for an explanation of Joey B*****'s holocaust analogy beggars belief. The manager probably used the term in a more general context than specifically citing the Nazi genocide of Jews and other minorities in the 1940s, but it is a word that has no place in the vernacular of a football manager bemoaning his players' propensity to commit errors. I'm sure some Gasheads took no offence whatsoever to B*****'s comment, but that word carries significance for millions around the globe. To use it in such a trivial context is wrong. The BBC reports Bristol City councillor Fabian Breckels has labelled B*****'s choice of words "appalling" and he believes the manager should consider his position. A simple, brief apology or, at the very least, explanation from the club for the manager's poor choice of phrasing would have sufficed. People would have moved on, but to bury heads in the sand and say nothing shows a lack of accountability and professionalism, prompting only more disillusionment from supporters. Saying nothing has made things worse. Rovers, historically, have been amateurish at times, almost charmingly so. But recent episodes have been different. After all, this is a football club that has been inclusive of all colours and creeds. It is a community-first club, so for Rovers to not recognise that a slip of the tongue from the face of the club could be perceived as greatly offensive to some people in Bristol and beyond is another self-inflicted error. Only a few months back, the club's communications caused outrage when commenting on B***** being charged with assaulting his wife – which he denies and will contest at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court in December – and owner Wael Al-Qadi was required to save face with an open letter a few hours later. It is sad to say it, but Bristol Rovers is a club that is not conducting itself correctly often enough. Last week, for example, the manager was taking aim at board member Tommy Widdrington in his pre-match press conference – his opportunity to galvanise supporters and try to lift their spirits. Instead, he was airing dirty laundry in public when the question he was asked was completely different to the one he answered. Where is the unity, the synergy required to be successful in the most competitive of industries? Bristol Rovers need to get a grip. Wael needs to lead but he chooses not too. He is showing extreme cowardice in this respect and especially now. How i wish he would do what the directors who sold the club did, sell It and at a price where someone has something to work with Wael al Qadi is no leader, has no football nous but likes the kudos of owning a club in England and having selfies with popular folk. He is the biggest liability of all and i blame him, for all of this. Frosty is bang on and it shows us as a third rate bunch of bums, ignorant ones at that. It really is time to step up or to foxtrot Oscar, the latter would be my favoured choice. Nice guys don’t win eff all but then, i have never thought of him as nice but a manchild narcissist
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 26, 2021 9:59:01 GMT
I'm well aware that other groups suffered - Romanies for one. Homosexuals for another. One of my sons is gay, so it comes close to home for me. But surely you accept that "The Holocaust" is universally accepted as referring to the murder of the Jews of various nationality across Europe? As I said in my post above, you are right, the answer is yes. But only by concocting a criteria that targeting the other groups has to be as uniform as the targeting of the Jews, and making a judgement for each of the other groups against that criteria. Personally, I don’t think this can be done without dispute and some fair argument other groupings were hated by the Nazi’s on a PAR with the hatred of the Jews, the targeting far from haphazard, and cruelty endured not always very much short of those of the Jews. It’s not straightforward to be fair to Holocaust educationalists, this part of it, though broadening the groupings and mentioning other numbers does seem to be happening more down the years. 5,000 - 15,000 Homosexuals does seem to suggest a strong degree of targeting and lack of clemency? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victimsThe further question is then, once caught, we’re they treated to same fate as the Jews? If placed into a separate camp without execution chamber, so the greatest threat is malnutrition, that is not the same fate I would agree. No one will know numbers as the table in the article suggests, but at least six million Jews. And the 11 million non Jews? Even 11 could be disputed as being too low. Do you include those who suffered far better fate than the Jews, for they were merely quickly rounded up, executed and dumped in a mass grave as the Nazi’s pushed East, as part of the Holocaust? Which is why I have said in my posts, ring fence the six million Jews and call it Shoah. And let the education place what happened to those six million in the context of a millennia of virulent anti semitism in Europe. And then a better word than Holocaust for the whole total number targeted and murdered we already have a strong word, genocide. Education can then link WWII genocide with Ataturk’s Armenian Genocide - for the League of Nations to do nothing inspired the Nazi’s to be believe they too could get away with genocide. Guilt for the WWII genocide has to fall on the League of Nations. But even before WWII the Jews had had enough of constant injustice, and were turning to Zionism. Somewhere to live securely, and after a very long history without that security, who can begrudge them that, and insist they stay in Europe? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Struma Ask those still alive, from the pre wear era, how many of Jewish faith looked upon and named those not of their faith. It’s not great PR for them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 10:03:57 GMT
That's a well written piece from Frost, he's usually rubbish, I think he had some assistance with that, but either way, I like it, a lot.
So, what's going on behind the scenes to allow this to be going on, why are none of the people in management positions dealing with it?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 26, 2021 10:09:38 GMT
I could tell you what my parents thoughts were on this whole thing but i know that i would be roundly condemned for it yet i would only be conveying their opinion and they were there. Don’t forget what the soviets did, in the destructive labour camps, in sunny siberia. My father weighed 77 pounds when allowed to leave, not set free and given a lift, food and help but allowed to leave. Some people fought for their lives, others walked into death with flakes of their own falling upon them. My own thoughts? I’d rather go down having a pop and taking bullets that meekly following, sheeplike, others into a certain death. I have nothing against any race, colour or creed but i do take umbrage with having no fortitude and i have already said enough mods, please delete if people are offended by this. One thing i will say is they are certainly having none of it now and i do take issue with what is happening to Palestinians. I’m not offended by your post. It’s a great post. Ending with the humility acknowledging the Jews are rightly having none of it now whilst also hoping the issues with Palestinians can be peacefully resolved too whilst maintaining security. I’m not sure the Arab world has been as intolerant and spiteful to the Jews down the centuries as much as the Europeans have been. I had an Uncle, born in Poland, away on some boys club camping trip at the moment the Germans and Russians, as it seems to me had some cozy deal to carve the country between them, and he was taken by the Russians a long way away to a Siberian camp where he nearly died of malnutrition and TB, and ended up having to fight the Germans for the Russians, which became the allies, and he fought at the Battle of Monte Cassino, and at end of the war because the Russians still held the part of Poland that was his home he came to England, and was in a camp, and met my Aunty. And because the Russians held it behind the Iron Curtain, he never went back. When he set off on that boys club camping trip it was the last he ever saw of his family. Those of us with lives easier than that shouldn’t think less of ourselves, but should perhaps think of ourselves less. FOOTNOTE. You aware the Polish part of the allies at Monte Casino had a fighting bear? I like the way he wasn’t asked to help carry the ammunition, he chose to join in and carry it. Thank you. There is a statue of Wojtek , the soldier bear, in Scotland and now a film being made about him. He held full soldiers rank of corporal and was always carrying shells at the front line. Monte cassino, along with falaise, were pivotal battles and i swell with pride when i think of that. Your uncle suffered the same fate as my dad but dad was one of the lucky ones, who made it to Polish HQ and into the polish first armoured division. He never ever complained nor even was he maudlin, he just loved life. I cannot even begin to imagine the horror he witnessed and was a part of. Many were made to fight for bot soviets and Germany but also many escaped into the polish forces. It was pure luck in many cases
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 10:18:53 GMT
Some selective narrative passing as "factual" history on this thread.
Anyway, agreed with the comments that for once, Frost has actually put his name to some incisive words.
B***** out and viva Israel.
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Post by baselswh on Oct 26, 2021 10:23:45 GMT
Viva Israel!
B***** in!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 26, 2021 10:39:15 GMT
BUGGER the child murdering swines, shooting people who throw stones and B***** out
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 26, 2021 11:12:54 GMT
It's a win win when B***** gobs off. It brings disrepute to the Football Club, but B***** doesn't care about that. Neither does the increasingly inept Wael Al-Qadi. B***** says provocative things so he can get more column inches and social media commentary. More (in)fame(y). The press love running a story about footballs least attractive personality. For some reason Barry Bennell and Adam Johnson aren't quite as newsworthy. I think we are definitely in Oscar Wilde territory:
"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
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Post by alftupper on Oct 26, 2021 13:20:01 GMT
BUGGER the child murdering swines, shooting people who throw stones and B***** out Eretz Zion. Undecided about B*****.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 26, 2021 15:32:44 GMT
Word of this has reached family in Switzerland and so this morning I am reminded by my wife of something said to her by a friend, the wife of a Liverpool season ticket holder, about twenty years ago. "Bristol Rovers are losers and if they are not careful anyone who follows them will become a loser as well". I reacted to that in the way any Gashead would which was to basically stick two fingers up but still keep a smile on my face.
But now it's a bit different, it's not about losing football matches or playing at a dilapidated stadium, it's about the shame of our club being publicly humiliated and having to watch our so called leaders cower away and not have the guts to come out fighting.
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Post by gastower on Oct 26, 2021 15:35:39 GMT
That's a well written piece from Frost, he's usually rubbish, I think he had some assistance with that, but either way, I like it, a lot. So, what's going on behind the scenes to allow this to be going on, why are none of the people in management positions dealing with it? Well Widdrington is in the middle east according to PoP and Starnes is on annual leave
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syg
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,005
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Post by syg on Oct 26, 2021 15:53:55 GMT
For those that missed "The Brilliant" Sam Frost's article in the Bristol Post. Bristol Rovers need to get a grip after another regrettable episode of the club losing its way. Bristol Rovers is a community club but it is alienating some supporters and parts of the wider football world. Bristol Rovers need to get a grip. This is a club that, for two years, has lurched from one mistake to another and the need to stop the rot is becoming increasingly urgent. On the pitch, it is a disastrous spell for the Gas, plunging from the top end of League One to the swamp-like depths of League Two in just 23 chaotic months. Their bullish expectation that promotion was inevitable appears terribly misguided with 14 games on the board and Rovers just four points clear of the bottom two. And off the pitch, the club is finding new ways to alienate supporters and harm its image in the wider football community. Sunday's decision to stay silent when asked for an explanation of Joey B*****'s holocaust analogy beggars belief. The manager probably used the term in a more general context than specifically citing the Nazi genocide of Jews and other minorities in the 1940s, but it is a word that has no place in the vernacular of a football manager bemoaning his players' propensity to commit errors. I'm sure some Gasheads took no offence whatsoever to B*****'s comment, but that word carries significance for millions around the globe. To use it in such a trivial context is wrong. The BBC reports Bristol City councillor Fabian Breckels has labelled B*****'s choice of words "appalling" and he believes the manager should consider his position. A simple, brief apology or, at the very least, explanation from the club for the manager's poor choice of phrasing would have sufficed. People would have moved on, but to bury heads in the sand and say nothing shows a lack of accountability and professionalism, prompting only more disillusionment from supporters. Saying nothing has made things worse. Rovers, historically, have been amateurish at times, almost charmingly so. But recent episodes have been different. After all, this is a football club that has been inclusive of all colours and creeds. It is a community-first club, so for Rovers to not recognise that a slip of the tongue from the face of the club could be perceived as greatly offensive to some people in Bristol and beyond is another self-inflicted error. Only a few months back, the club's communications caused outrage when commenting on B***** being charged with assaulting his wife – which he denies and will contest at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court in December – and owner Wael Al-Qadi was required to save face with an open letter a few hours later. It is sad to say it, but Bristol Rovers is a club that is not conducting itself correctly often enough. Last week, for example, the manager was taking aim at board member Tommy Widdrington in his pre-match press conference – his opportunity to galvanise supporters and try to lift their spirits. Instead, he was airing dirty laundry in public when the question he was asked was completely different to the one he answered. Where is the unity, the synergy required to be successful in the most competitive of industries? Bristol Rovers need to get a grip. Excellent piece that, glad to see he feels able write it. For me, JB is a pseudo intellectual, probably trying to find a synonym for bad and jumped on holocaust. All it needed was a simple apology, "sorry, wrong choice of word" and let the dust settle. I presume the club asked him to apologise and he refused, conjecture, but I'm hopeful. Maybe he decided not to as he looked in a thesaurus and decided it was OK. Maybe the club don't want to criticise him publicly. Either way I suspect we are on the look out for a new manager as I type.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 15:55:08 GMT
That's a well written piece from Frost, he's usually rubbish, I think he had some assistance with that, but either way, I like it, a lot. So, what's going on behind the scenes to allow this to be going on, why are none of the people in management positions dealing with it? Well Widdrington is in the middle east according to PoP and Starnes is on annual leave So that leaves Wael, this Colonel character whoever he is, and Gorringe running the show?
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Post by gastower on Oct 26, 2021 16:15:00 GMT
Running or ruining ? Not sure Wael was there Saturday , did anyone see him ?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 26, 2021 16:26:03 GMT
If history is anything to go by and the way the Club handled the "victimless crime" debacle... I would expect a badly written, weak apology to come out of BRFC in the next day or two - which will only inflame the situation further. It's what we do. We are just crap.
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