Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 19:06:22 GMT
It's the connotations of the word. B***** knew exactly what he was saying and that it would cause offence. He's a deliberately antagonistic character and fair play to those of you supporting him. Not that it matters,but my opinion is that support is totally unwarranted. Anyway, B***** out. I don't think he set out to offend, I suspect that he's been playing at being intellectual again and has had a CD of something like The Great Gatsby playing in his car, that contains the word used in its original context, sort of, but even then the use describes not only a scene but the overarching implications of what's being witnessed, and that's far beyond anything relating to the performance of a football player in one match, so if that's where he's got it from, all he was doing was trying to be clever, and failing. Anyway, according to The Telegraph he's refused to apologise.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,090
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Post by bloogas on Oct 25, 2021 19:20:29 GMT
BG, Ugo Moniye deserved to be voted out. Thanks for the reminder about The Outlaws though. Starts tonight. I'll set the Betamax. Don't bother. I've seen trailers and once again the average actor cannot do a Bristol accent.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Oct 25, 2021 19:22:05 GMT
It's just a poor use of words to describe a poor footballer like Anderton.
"He's having a mare" to "He's having a holo"
He did not mean the Jewish Holocaust. He was just carried away with his tongue and used a word that he has never been used on a Sunday morning on the sidelines of the Clanage.
I am much more prepared to hang him for absence of defensive shape and ability to play round pegs in round holes.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 25, 2021 19:52:53 GMT
The article refers to "the holocaust".That meaning a specific tragic mass murder in WWII. Joe used the word "holocaust",,as in having a nightmare of a game. Someone ought to point this out to the councillor. An apology for any offence caused perhaps but sacking or resignation, absolutely no way. Part of me wants to say Bas is right, the more people, especially partisan politicians, insist B***** has referred to The Holocaust, when there is no evidence what he really meant, it only plays into the emotions of the B***** Fan Boys and makes him a martyr. But then, truth is, as no one can be sure what definition Joey was thinking as he used the word, nothing can be ruled out either. I don’t wish to get into arguments with Jewish Politicians, The National Holocaust Centre and Museum, Or the Bristol Holocaust Memorial Day Steering Group, but there is no doubt in my mind the terms and reference of The Holocaust, the true inhumanity and cruelty inflicted as at least six million Jews were murdered largely between 1941 and 1945, will change in the coming years. I think this change is already happening, should it be a word from the Christian world, being realised from the start there are better Hebrew words to use to describe the event, as the theological and historical nature of the word the Greek-Christian "holocaust" is inappropriate term for the genocide of the Jews, in the original Hebrew it meant a "burnt offering" to God. It was not the intention of the Nazis to make a sacrifice of this kind and the position of the Jews was not that of a ritual victim - to ring fence a word for those six million Jews alone, Shoah, or Hurban surely shows much more understanding and sensitivity. And there are two other points, firstly where education draws the line, where to be inclusive and exclusive of the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored barbarism inflicted by the Nazi regime during World War II - does it stop at the six million Jews, or add to the count the Roma, Poles, Russians, Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, Freemasons - this is essentially a judgement the targeting of other groups was less uniform than directed at the Jews, regardless of persecution or suffering and death, you are only counted if you are just as uniformly targeted. Up to 200,000 Freemasons alone does sound a bit targeted to me. Men are not ants regardless what they are being targeted for. And secondly, I have felt for a long time we get Holocaust education, but it is rather stand alone, not placed enough in education of more than a Thousand years of anti semitism in Europe, where Jews are not allowed to be open, laws passed throughout Europe, England and Spain in particular, where Jews had to leave or convert, surrender all wealthpossessions in taking either option. Is it inconvenient history is conveniently forgotten when closer to home? Cliffords Tower and the pogroms in England 1189-90 doesn’t get mentioned much at all? When people dress up as Crusaders to represent England, are they aware of Jews hidden by Germans from Crusaders when the Crusaders ride through? In Protestant Sunday School do they explain Martin Luthers diatribes were kinder to the Pope of Rome than to Jews everywhere? Do we understand enough or feel enough from Holocaust education as it currently is? The focus for us Gasheads from today has to be this man reached the end of the line here in football terms last Saturday, if not actually weeks ago, the same squad will now respond better to a different leadership voice, and to give that new leadership the coming window.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 20:08:33 GMT
I can remember when a caretaker manager of ours referred to one of our players as having 'the touch of a rapist' in a live BBC radio Bristol interview. That would have been about 15+ years ago. Think it passed most people by. I imagine it was edited out for the future plays. Thank god it wasnt B*****
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absent
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 306
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Post by absent on Oct 25, 2021 20:12:36 GMT
I can remember when a caretaker manaager of ours referred to one of our players as having 'the touch of a rapist' in a live BBC radio Bristol interview. That would have been about 15+ years ago. Think it passed most people by. I imagine it was edited out for the future plays. Thank god it wasnt B***** It was Phil Bater about Lewis Haldane and it got a lot of opprobrium at the time. It would get a whole lot more now.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 25, 2021 20:22:30 GMT
The article refers to "the holocaust".That meaning a specific tragic mass murder in WWII. Joe used the word "holocaust",,as in having a nightmare of a game. Someone ought to point this out to the councillor. An apology for any offence caused perhaps but sacking or resignation, absolutely no way. Basel - you are absolutely right. My copy of Collins English Dictionary defines 'holocaust' as a noun meaning destruction or loss of life on a massive scale. Hence you, I or B***** might refer to 'a nuclear holocaust' totally innocuously. If he had said 'The Holocaust' that would be very different - that would be referring to the deliberate murder of 6 million Jews. I notice the BBC report quotes JB saying 'holocaust' with a capital H. As JB was talking that is an interpretation by the BBC. Very typical of the shoddy, shabby depths their journalism has sunk to. Jews- many poles, Hungarian, german and eastern bloc country Jews. There is no Jewland, its a religion so the people were not just Jewish. There were a great deal of others of different faith too
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 25, 2021 20:24:38 GMT
I can remember when a caretaker manager of ours referred to one of our players as having 'the touch of a rapist' in a live BBC radio Bristol interview. That would have been about 15+ years ago. Think it passed most people by. I imagine it was edited out for the future plays. Thank god it wasnt B***** Thanks Wael
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Oct 25, 2021 20:33:45 GMT
I can remember when a caretaker manager of ours referred to one of our players as having 'the touch of a rapist' in a live BBC radio Bristol interview. That would have been about 15+ years ago. Think it passed most people by. I imagine it was edited out for the future plays. Thank god it wasnt B***** Thanks Wael But it was B*****. Let's vote on the clumsiest word uttered so far... 1. Negligent 2. Cancer 3. Charity 4. Holocaust Personally, I am going for a fifth... 5. Rocking
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 20:39:38 GMT
But it was B*****. Let's vote on the clumsiest word uttered so far... 1. Negligent 2. Cancer 3. Charity 4. Holocaust Personally, I am going for a fifth... 5. Rocking
Does 'church' count?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 25, 2021 20:39:40 GMT
But it was B*****. Let's vote on the clumsiest word uttered so far... 1. Negligent 2. Cancer 3. Charity 4. Holocaust Personally, I am going for a fifth... 5. Rocking You mean he goes for emotive words as a Twitter strategy?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 20:49:24 GMT
But it was B*****. Let's vote on the clumsiest word uttered so far... 1. Negligent 2. Cancer 3. Charity 4. Holocaust Personally, I am going for a fifth... 5. Rocking Tactics
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,090
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Post by bloogas on Oct 25, 2021 20:55:46 GMT
Basel - you are absolutely right. My copy of Collins English Dictionary defines 'holocaust' as a noun meaning destruction or loss of life on a massive scale. Hence you, I or B***** might refer to 'a nuclear holocaust' totally innocuously. If he had said 'The Holocaust' that would be very different - that would be referring to the deliberate murder of 6 million Jews. I notice the BBC report quotes JB saying 'holocaust' with a capital H. As JB was talking that is an interpretation by the BBC. Very typical of the shoddy, shabby depths their journalism has sunk to. Jews- many poles, Hungarian, german and eastern bloc country Jews. There is no Jewland, its a religion so the people were not just Jewish. There were a great deal of others of different faith too I'm well aware that other groups suffered - Romanies for one. Homosexuals for another. One of my sons is gay, so it comes close to home for me. But surely you accept that "The Holocaust" is universally accepted as referring to the murder of the Jews of various nationality across Europe?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 25, 2021 21:19:46 GMT
Jews- many poles, Hungarian, german and eastern bloc country Jews. There is no Jewland, its a religion so the people were not just Jewish. There were a great deal of others of different faith too I'm well aware that other groups suffered - Romanies for one. Homosexuals for another. One of my sons is gay, so it comes close to home for me. But surely you accept that "The Holocaust" is universally accepted as referring to the murder of the Jews of various nationality across Europe? As I said in my post above, you are right, the answer is yes. But only by concocting a criteria that targeting the other groups has to be as uniform as the targeting of the Jews, and making a judgement for each of the other groups against that criteria. Personally, I don’t think this can be done without dispute and some fair argument other groupings were hated by the Nazi’s on a PAR with the hatred of the Jews, the targeting far from haphazard, and cruelty endured not always very much short of those of the Jews. It’s not straightforward to be fair to Holocaust educationalists, this part of it, though broadening the groupings and mentioning other numbers does seem to be happening more down the years. 5,000 - 15,000 Homosexuals does seem to suggest a strong degree of targeting and lack of clemency? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victimsThe further question is then, once caught, we’re they treated to same fate as the Jews? If placed into a separate camp without execution chamber, so the greatest threat is malnutrition, that is not the same fate I would agree. No one will know numbers as the table in the article suggests, but at least six million Jews. And the 11 million non Jews? Even 11 could be disputed as being too low. Do you include those who suffered far better fate than the Jews, for they were merely quickly rounded up, executed and dumped in a mass grave as the Nazi’s pushed East, as part of the Holocaust? Which is why I have said in my posts, ring fence the six million Jews and call it Shoah. And let the education place what happened to those six million in the context of a millennia of virulent anti semitism in Europe. And then a better word than Holocaust for the whole total number targeted and murdered we already have a strong word, genocide. Education can then link WWII genocide with Ataturk’s Armenian Genocide - for the League of Nations to do nothing inspired the Nazi’s to be believe they too could get away with genocide. Guilt for the WWII genocide has to fall on the League of Nations. But even before WWII the Jews had had enough of constant injustice, and were turning to Zionism. Somewhere to live securely, and after a very long history without that security, who can begrudge them that, and insist they stay in Europe? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Struma
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 25, 2021 23:35:15 GMT
I'm well aware that other groups suffered - Romanies for one. Homosexuals for another. One of my sons is gay, so it comes close to home for me. But surely you accept that "The Holocaust" is universally accepted as referring to the murder of the Jews of various nationality across Europe? As I said in my post above, you are right, the answer is yes. But only by concocting a criteria that targeting the other groups has to be as uniform as the targeting of the Jews, and making a judgement for each of the other groups against that criteria. Personally, I don’t think this can be done without dispute and some fair argument other groupings were hated by the Nazi’s on a PAR with the hatred of the Jews, the targeting far from haphazard, and cruelty endured not always very much short of those of the Jews. It’s not straightforward to be fair to Holocaust educationalists, this part of it, though broadening the groupings and mentioning other numbers does seem to be happening more down the years. 5,000 - 15,000 Homosexuals does seem to suggest a strong degree of targeting and lack of clemency? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victimsThe further question is then, once caught, we’re they treated to same fate as the Jews? If placed into a separate camp without execution chamber, so the greatest threat is malnutrition, that is not the same fate I would agree. No one will know numbers as the table in the article suggests, but at least six million Jews. And the 11 million non Jews? Even 11 could be disputed as being too low. Do you include those who suffered far better fate than the Jews, for they were merely quickly rounded up, executed and dumped in a mass grave as the Nazi’s pushed East, as part of the Holocaust? Which is why I have said in my posts, ring fence the six million Jews and call it Shoah. And let the education place what happened to those six million in the context of a millennia of virulent anti semitism in Europe. And then a better word than Holocaust for the whole total number targeted and murdered we already have a strong word, genocide. Education can then link WWII genocide with Ataturk’s Armenian Genocide - for the League of Nations to do nothing inspired the Nazi’s to be believe they too could get away with genocide. Guilt for the WWII genocide has to fall on the League of Nations. But even before WWII the Jews had had enough of constant injustice, and were turning to Zionism. Somewhere to live securely, and after a very long history without that security, who can begrudge them that, and insist they stay in Europe? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Struma I could tell you what my parents thoughts were on this whole thing but i know that i would be roundly condemned for it yet i would only be conveying their opinion and they were there. Don’t forget what the soviets did, in the destructive labour camps, in sunny siberia. My father weighed 77 pounds when allowed to leave, not set free and given a lift, food and help but allowed to leave. Some people fought for their lives, others walked into death with flakes of their own falling upon them. My own thoughts? I’d rather go down having a pop and taking bullets that meekly following, sheeplike, others into a certain death. I have nothing against any race, colour or creed but i do take umbrage with having no fortitude and i have already said enough mods, please delete if people are offended by this. One thing i will say is they are certainly having none of it now and i do take issue with what is happening to Palestinians. Jews calls os goyim, just a Germans called them, and us, untermensch.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 26, 2021 0:37:38 GMT
As I said in my post above, you are right, the answer is yes. But only by concocting a criteria that targeting the other groups has to be as uniform as the targeting of the Jews, and making a judgement for each of the other groups against that criteria. Personally, I don’t think this can be done without dispute and some fair argument other groupings were hated by the Nazi’s on a PAR with the hatred of the Jews, the targeting far from haphazard, and cruelty endured not always very much short of those of the Jews. It’s not straightforward to be fair to Holocaust educationalists, this part of it, though broadening the groupings and mentioning other numbers does seem to be happening more down the years. 5,000 - 15,000 Homosexuals does seem to suggest a strong degree of targeting and lack of clemency? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victimsThe further question is then, once caught, we’re they treated to same fate as the Jews? If placed into a separate camp without execution chamber, so the greatest threat is malnutrition, that is not the same fate I would agree. No one will know numbers as the table in the article suggests, but at least six million Jews. And the 11 million non Jews? Even 11 could be disputed as being too low. Do you include those who suffered far better fate than the Jews, for they were merely quickly rounded up, executed and dumped in a mass grave as the Nazi’s pushed East, as part of the Holocaust? Which is why I have said in my posts, ring fence the six million Jews and call it Shoah. And let the education place what happened to those six million in the context of a millennia of virulent anti semitism in Europe. And then a better word than Holocaust for the whole total number targeted and murdered we already have a strong word, genocide. Education can then link WWII genocide with Ataturk’s Armenian Genocide - for the League of Nations to do nothing inspired the Nazi’s to be believe they too could get away with genocide. Guilt for the WWII genocide has to fall on the League of Nations. But even before WWII the Jews had had enough of constant injustice, and were turning to Zionism. Somewhere to live securely, and after a very long history without that security, who can begrudge them that, and insist they stay in Europe? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Struma I could tell you what my parents thoughts were on this whole thing but i know that i would be roundly condemned for it yet i would only be conveying their opinion and they were there. Don’t forget what the soviets did, in the destructive labour camps, in sunny siberia. My father weighed 77 pounds when allowed to leave, not set free and given a lift, food and help but allowed to leave. Some people fought for their lives, others walked into death with flakes of their own falling upon them. My own thoughts? I’d rather go down having a pop and taking bullets that meekly following, sheeplike, others into a certain death. I have nothing against any race, colour or creed but i do take umbrage with having no fortitude and i have already said enough mods, please delete if people are offended by this. One thing i will say is they are certainly having none of it now and i do take issue with what is happening to Palestinians. I’m not offended by your post. It’s a great post. Ending with the humility acknowledging the Jews are rightly having none of it now whilst also hoping the issues with Palestinians can be peacefully resolved too whilst maintaining security. I’m not sure the Arab world has been as intolerant and spiteful to the Jews down the centuries as much as the Europeans have been. I had an Uncle, born in Poland, away on some boys club camping trip at the moment the Germans and Russians, as it seems to me had some cozy deal to carve the country between them, and he was taken by the Russians a long way away to a Siberian camp where he nearly died of malnutrition and TB, and ended up having to fight the Germans for the Russians, which became the allies, and he fought at the Battle of Monte Cassino, and at end of the war because the Russians still held the part of Poland that was his home he came to England, and was in a camp, and met my Aunty. And because the Russians held it behind the Iron Curtain, he never went back. When he set off on that boys club camping trip it was the last he ever saw of his family. Those of us with lives easier than that shouldn’t think less of ourselves, but should perhaps think of ourselves less. FOOTNOTE. You aware the Polish part of the allies at Monte Casino had a fighting bear? I like the way he wasn’t asked to help carry the ammunition, he chose to join in and carry it.
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Post by alftupper on Oct 26, 2021 8:24:56 GMT
Oh my God!! How will the club survive this? Gobby B***** gobs off and uses inappropriate word, revealing stream of consciousness. It's just click-bait...but it would never have happened under John Ward or Paul Trollope. Oh yes it did. I witnessed Trolls yelling at Swansea officials that they were "A bunch of Welsh ***ts" What part of that do you object to, Pop? The tautology?
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Post by alftupper on Oct 26, 2021 8:29:22 GMT
BG, Ugo Moniye deserved to be voted out. Thanks for the reminder about The Outlaws though. Starts tonight. I'll set the Betamax. Could I borrow the Betamax when you`ve finished with it, please? A friend of mine has some very old films that he`d like to watch, when there`s nobody else about.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 8:44:05 GMT
BG, Ugo Moniye deserved to be voted out. Thanks for the reminder about The Outlaws though. Starts tonight. I'll set the Betamax. Could I borrow the Betamax when you`ve finished with it, please? A friend of mine has some very old films that he`d like to watch, when there`s nobody else about.
I know. Your "friend" lent me those films. When they've been transferrred on to a modern format like cine film, you're welcome to the Betamax and also the VHS2000. Um...B***** out.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 8:45:21 GMT
Oh yes it did. I witnessed Trolls yelling at Swansea officials that they were "A bunch of Welsh ***ts" What part of that do you object to, Pop? The tautology? The part that my Great Great Grandmother Cordelia Jones from South Wales gave me.
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