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Post by baselswh on Oct 18, 2021 17:17:59 GMT
Ali Harbe Ali was apparently listening to Anjem Choudarys hate stuff online.
Choudary is free to spew his hate today.
Plenty of the terrorists get short sentences.
Prevent?A waste of time.Insulting.
About time the Government sorted these lunatics out.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 22:22:42 GMT
It's a fair topic for debate. Where you and I always struggle though is with your language on the topic. If you can make it clear that it's a tiny element within the faith that present a danger, and the majority are just normal people who are as disgusted by the atrocities as you and I, then we can probably make progress in our discussion. It depends what you mean by the "tiny element" that represents an imminent danger. www.channel4.com/press/news/c4-survey-and-documentary-reveals-what-british-muslims-really-thinkThis is a Channel 4 survey from 2016. Trevor Phillips presented the current affairs programme analysing the opinion poll. So are we talking about the 4% of Muslims who sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombings? (165,000 people). I would suggest they pretty much all present a danger. And are the vast majority 'just normal people'? The following would suggest not. 39% of Muslims that agree that “wives should always obey their husbands” (1,611,000 people). 47% of Muslims who do not believe that it is acceptable for a school teacher to be homosexual (1,940,000 people) 66% of Muslims who would NOT inform the police if they thought somebody they knew was getting involved with people who support terrorism in Syria? (2,726,000 people) Muslim population of the UK is approx. 4.13mil (6.3%). www.statista.com/topics/4765/islam-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/It is set to rise to over 17% by 2050. So I would conclude that we do have a problem with Muslim views that most decent people would view as extreme. Decent people - people living in the UK who are generally tolerant and inclusive. Pretty much the only person I find interesting and able to discuss this topic without fear is Maajid Nawaz. I hope he is given more support in his fight against extremism. Pick whatever statistics you like out of that report. 96% of British Muslims do not sympathise to any degree at all with suicide bombings. 96% of British Muslims do not sympathise to any degree with people who commit terrorist actions as a form of political protest. That's been my experience of speaking to Muslims. They believe what they believe, unless they can find new evidence I'm not going to agree with them about that, but they seem like normal people to me. 39% say that Wives should obey their Husbands. That's probably in line with British Christian views of maybe 100 years ago. For such a young religion it isn't so bad. Consider what Christianity was up to 700 years ago. 77% do not think that Sharia law (We need to find something better to call this, Law Law is just daft) should be introduced. I could go on. There's some odd stuff in there as well where the numbers don't work; So what about the other 16%? Maybe they think you should just stone adulterers to death a little bit? Makes the entire thing look a bit suspect to me. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 18, 2021 22:49:48 GMT
Ali Harbe Ali was apparently listening to Anjem Choudarys hate stuff online. Choudary is free to spew his hate today. Plenty of the terrorists get short sentences. Prevent?A waste of time.Insulting. About time the Government sorted these lunatics out. It’s not just you Bas, a lot of people are jumping on the idea this is religious terrorism. I’m not saying you are wrong, but running another motive passed you for your thoughts. I’m not entirely sure at this stage, it’s still too early for even the head of investigation to say they are sure of motive, but there could be stronger political motive than religious one, stemming from the assassins family connections to the Somalian opposition. Qatari money influenced the 2012 and 2017 election outcomes in Somalia. But I don’t think many in the UK are that bothered or even aware. We don’t regard Qatari money as dirty in our sports, or our politics. We don’t even regard Chinese money and soft power as dirty or dangerous! It could be argued the UK are the mugs in these games of soft power at the moment. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/china-now-owns-ps143bn-in-uk-assets-from-nuclear-power-to-pubs-and-schools-b1841056.htmlwww.thetimes.co.uk/article/top-english-private-schools-put-chinese-communists-on-boards-vxsdtjcpk www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-04-24/cameron-exploited-lobbying-loophole-to-discuss-1bn-china-fund-with-treasury But that’s off the point. Back to this specific Qatar - Somalia - UK connection. www.albawaba.com/node/how-killing-david-amess-connected-qatar-somalia-relations-1451284When you have political friends in this world, and those friends have enemies, those enemies start to view you as the enemy too. And not only we would feel the same, we have havn’t we? When the IRA were executing and murdering British, how did we feel about those around the world funding them, gifting them weaponry and looking opposite way from training camps on their soil? And not even short term either, many who suffered can feel bitter in their families long afterwards. (If I’ve just spoilt the end of Odessa File for you, sorry) On the other foot, When the Greeks had an oppressive government, the British secret services worked with that government, as Did all NATO governments conducting the Cold War using Operation Gladio, claiming protecting us from Warsaw Pact invasion, the upshot being invested in what the Greek Government stood for. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_junta en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_GladioAs is often the case of many of these murders that seem bewildering, As in another murders that looked bewildering at first, like Jill Dando, but what we actually learn is the strength of these grudges and how it can be passed generationally, as our spies and military attaché’ are still regarded fair game by Greek vanguards. In the eyes of disadvantaged or oppressed, if you are friends with the oppressor you become the oppressor too, regardless if you are, or not conscious of your involvement in the strong political or patriotic feelings of others. Close ties between governments of nations can overlook not all nations are democratic like we are, whilst even here foreign money influencing UK elections, our politics and our way of life would be unsavoury for all of us wouldn’t it - if it was going on? In a great game of soft power and cold wars, many killings may appear baffling, with the danger being the harm we cause ourselves, coming to the wrong conclusion. Having said all that, you still might not be wrong in religious rather than political motive. PS as we are on both the Greeks and the threat of Communism, Chairman Mao was asked what he thought would have happened if Kruschev had been assassinated and not Kennedy. He replied, he was sure Aristotle Onassis wouldn’t have married Mrs Kruschev. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 19, 2021 0:49:00 GMT
As I said, check the history of Christianity. It has far more blood on its hands than Islam has. Islam is a new cult, it's in its infancy and as such appears to be riddled with insecurity. That doesn't excuse what's being done in its name, but it gives some hope that in the future it will mature and become more tolerant. BTW, America is a fundamentalist Christian society. Very few people die as a result of their batsh1t crazy Christian thoughts, but it still destroys lives, makes career progression far more difficult unless you join their blood cult and it tears families apart daily over there. All organised religion = BAD. If any of the believers on here want to have another go at defending their faith, I'm all ears. Please, let's have some new evidence to demonstrate that your God exists as so far we have an empty bag. TWD. I know you're up on perceived or real weaknesses within religious faith and what have you,but the threat to our UK is not Christianities past or present. There is one religion that threatens us or at least part of that religion. We would be better off discussing how to introduce serious reform to stop the barbaric and medieval side of Islam. It's a hot potato, but that ought not stop discussion. Absolutely, discussion should go on. But this is the Davis Amess thread, and we shouldn’t jump to conclusion what the motivation was. Even though the sight of his wrecked family today is emotional. Motive is key to the nature of the charges, hence I agree discussion in this thread about the motivation is relevant. My take is I am waiting to hear from the prosecutor. Nowhere am I saying in my mind the brutal killing of David Amess is justified - it’s cold bloodied and cruel murder IMO - but in my previous post I have explained in this murderers mind there is likely a motive, rather than a motiveless killing. And my main point is, more than just religion provides motivation, there’s race, politics, nationalism and ethnicity providing motivation behind many slayings. Think of some of the historic assassinations and the motivation behind them. Juliius Caesar - political, a republican spirit not wishing for the return of Kings or ruling dynasty? Arch Duke Ferdinand - ethnic (Slav) groups feeling oppressed inside the sphere of Germanic control? Martin Luther King - motivation may never be known. Abraham Lincoln - revenge for the defeat of the Confederate States in a war over economics: northern economy relied on manufacturing and the agricultural southern economy depended on the production of cotton? Seeking motivation for David Amess killing, we may not get an answer, or one we understand or like. We can’t be sure we know it yet. That’s not to say a spotlight hasn’t been thrown over some real area’s for improvement. I am not convinced de radicalisation programs work well, but people going on them are never flagged to security services does seem odd. And are we sure this is an act of terror hence charges brought under the terrorism act? Even terrible murders are not all deliberate act of terrorism, in the sense terrorists use terror as a weapon, many murderers not looking to exploit terror as part of their motivation, one offs against an individual they have grudge against. If we had a serving British Primeminster shot and killed in Parliament, are you saying that has to be terrorism? It could be a dispute over a failed business. |
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Post by baselswh on Oct 19, 2021 6:25:56 GMT
TWD. I know you're up on perceived or real weaknesses within religious faith and what have you,but the threat to our UK is not Christianities past or present. There is one religion that threatens us or at least part of that religion. We would be better off discussing how to introduce serious reform to stop the barbaric and medieval side of Islam. It's a hot potato, but that ought not stop discussion. Absolutely, discussion should go on. But this is the Davis Amess thread, and we shouldn’t jump to conclusion what the motivation was. Even though the sight of his wrecked family today is emotional. Motive is key to the nature of the charges, hence I agree discussion in this thread about the motivation is relevant. My take is I am waiting to hear from the prosecutor. Nowhere am I saying in my mind the brutal killing of David Amess is justified - it’s cold bloodied and cruel murder IMO - but in my previous post I have explained in this murderers mind there is likely a motive, rather than a motiveless killing. And my main point is, more than just religion provides motivation, there’s race, politics, nationalism and ethnicity providing motivation behind many slayings. Think of some of the historic assassinations and the motivation behind them. Juliius Caesar - political, a republican spirit not wishing for the return of Kings or ruling dynasty? Arch Duke Ferdinand - ethnic (Slav) groups feeling oppressed inside the sphere of Germanic control? Martin Luther King - motivation may never be known. Abraham Lincoln - revenge for the defeat of the Confederate States in a war over economics: northern economy relied on manufacturing and the agricultural southern economy depended on the production of cotton? Seeking motivation for David Amess killing, we may not get an answer, or one we understand or like. We can’t be sure we know it yet. That’s not to say a spotlight hasn’t been thrown over some real area’s for improvement. I am not convinced de radicalisation programs work well, but people going on them are never flagged to security services does seem odd. And are we sure this is an act of terror hence charges brought under the terrorism act? Even terrible murders are not all deliberate act of terrorism, in the sense terrorists use terror as a weapon, many murderers not looking to exploit terror as part of their motivation, one offs against an individual they have grudge against. If we had a serving British Primeminster shot and killed in Parliament, are you saying that has to be terrorism? It could be a dispute over a failed business. They've found out he listened to Anjem Choudary, the 'hate everything that is'nt fundamentalist Islam' preacher. The terrorist police are investigating. Pretty sure there's no jumping to conclusion. He's an evil b*****d. Lives in Croydon. A home grown nutter. We have to see that there is a big problem and toughen up against it. |
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Post by alftupper on Oct 19, 2021 7:27:56 GMT
What other UK religions indoctrinate like Islam? I can assure you the Anglican church does'nt and we don't get particular problems with eg Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu etc. There's is one religion where the arrogant and dangerous hatred comes from. Reformation must come and all strength to Muslims and non Muslims trying to achieve it. Not a discussion I can be bothered to have Bas. All the best  Well, it`s a discussion that somebody ought to be having. Even you must be able to see that there`s something seriously amiss here. |
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Post by baselswh on Oct 19, 2021 16:38:25 GMT
The brother of the Manchester bomber is due to answer questions at an enquiry into the incident.
He's fled the UK.
What an absolute joke our law and police have become.Pathetic.
It's also an insult to the families that lost loved ones in that mass murder.
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Post by baselswh on Oct 22, 2021 15:58:56 GMT
We as a nation are scared to talk about the albeit small percentage but high number of Islamists in our UK.
Apparently Parliament have been going on about social media and what have you.
There is a real and massive threat from thousands of nutters in this country.
I'm not sure what's more insane,them ,or us pretending they don't exist.
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Post by baselswh on Mar 22, 2022 7:37:30 GMT
The stinking filth that murdered David Amess is now in court.
He chatted with DA,saying how he was moving to the area,all friendly.Then an alert beep on his mobile went off,instead of taking out his mobile,out came a huge knife and he repeatedly stabbed his victim,puncturing his body until he was dead.A man offering him help.
To think we have people in this country that have sympathies with this thing.
I would see it hanged.
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Post by baselswh on Apr 11, 2022 18:06:55 GMT
The sick ISIS murderer found guilty today.
I hope he gets life,until his last breath.
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bluetornados
Predictions League
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Posts: 1,994 
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Post by bluetornados on Apr 11, 2022 20:02:29 GMT
The sick ISIS murderer found guilty today. I hope he gets life,until his last breath. This is the vile scumbag that stabbed Sir David Amess (69) more than 20 times, he even refused to stand up in the dock on religious grounds. The two police officers who detained him have been awarded the merit star for bravery is Essex police's highest award. This terrorist will rot in jail and die in ignominy. ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/17503/production/_124119459_tv075248240.jpg |
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Post by baselswh on Apr 12, 2022 6:47:28 GMT
'Prevent' failed with this scum.Not the first time it's criminally failed the British people.
Maybe playing ping pong with another Britain hater,whilst listening to the Quran to a disco beat, is'nt the answer.
The father of this piece of filth arrived in England in the 60s,had a son and left after half a dozen years or so.Another international drifter with no like or loyalty to the British people. Wonderful multi culturalism.
No great surprise his son hated our country and people. Multicultural hatred.Imported terror crime.
I think France are further down the road with their relationship with West hating Islam (not all Muslims,better state that).A respected expert on extremism Maajid Nawaz thinks that possibly,in 50 years time Muslims in the UK would of moved away from the madness too many are currently taught by parents,by teachers in their illegal schools and in mosques.I hope he's correct.In the scenario he is'nt,our current apartheid will be far starker and we'll have powder a keg situation. We already have this in England to a certain extent.
It's understandable that Le Penn and her voters want to save their culture and country.
Have the French finally lost patience?
I don't know what the answer is.
Oldie says relax and allow the law to stop eg immigrant murderers.Fair enough.It may well be best to go this way.Personally,in this case,I would like to see far greater sentences,a working deportation law and a return of hanging.
Etc.
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Post by baselswh on Apr 13, 2022 12:02:13 GMT
Just heard he got life and will never be released.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on Apr 13, 2022 19:08:56 GMT
'Prevent' failed with this scum.Not the first time it's criminally failed the British people. Maybe playing ping pong with another Britain hater,whilst listening to the Quran to a disco beat, is'nt the answer. The father of this piece of filth arrived in England in the 60s,had a son and left after half a dozen years or so.Another international drifter with no like or loyalty to the British people. Wonderful multi culturalism. No great surprise his son hated our country and people. Multicultural hatred.Imported terror crime. I think France are further down the road with their relationship with West hating Islam (not all Muslims,better state that).A respected expert on extremism Maajid Nawaz thinks that possibly,in 50 years time Muslims in the UK would of moved away from the madness too many are currently taught by parents,by teachers in their illegal schools and in mosques.I hope he's correct.In the scenario he is'nt,our current apartheid will be far starker and we'll have powder a keg situation. We already have this in England to a certain extent. It's understandable that Le Penn and her voters want to save their culture and country. Have the French finally lost patience? I don't know what the answer is. Oldie says relax and allow the law to stop eg immigrant murderers.Fair enough.It may well be best to go this way.Personally,in this case,I would like to see far greater sentences,a working deportation law and a return of hanging. Etc. Just read this diatribe. What an absolute load of incoherent nonsense. Whatever happened to our education system that we turned out people like this. My god. |
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Post by baselswh on Apr 13, 2022 20:06:44 GMT
'Prevent' failed with this scum.Not the first time it's criminally failed the British people. Maybe playing ping pong with another Britain hater,whilst listening to the Quran to a disco beat, is'nt the answer. The father of this piece of filth arrived in England in the 60s,had a son and left after half a dozen years or so.Another international drifter with no like or loyalty to the British people. Wonderful multi culturalism. No great surprise his son hated our country and people. Multicultural hatred.Imported terror crime. I think France are further down the road with their relationship with West hating Islam (not all Muslims,better state that).A respected expert on extremism Maajid Nawaz thinks that possibly,in 50 years time Muslims in the UK would of moved away from the madness too many are currently taught by parents,by teachers in their illegal schools and in mosques.I hope he's correct.In the scenario he is'nt,our current apartheid will be far starker and we'll have powder a keg situation. We already have this in England to a certain extent. It's understandable that Le Penn and her voters want to save their culture and country. Have the French finally lost patience? I don't know what the answer is. Oldie says relax and allow the law to stop eg immigrant murderers.Fair enough.It may well be best to go this way.Personally,in this case,I would like to see far greater sentences,a working deportation law and a return of hanging. Etc. Just read this diatribe. What an absolute load of incoherent nonsense. Whatever happened to our education system that we turned out people like this. My god. A young lad/s put up some sexist stickers against women enjoying football and you call to have them birched on the field of play at ht,then 'rub salt into their wounds'. Oldie outraged! Muslim horribly murders a Conservative MP and you go quiet. You're a stinking hypocrite. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on Apr 13, 2022 20:17:27 GMT
Just read this diatribe. What an absolute load of incoherent nonsense. Whatever happened to our education system that we turned out people like this. My god. A young lad/s put up some sexist stickers against women enjoying football and you call to have them birched on the field of play at ht,then 'rub salt into their wounds'. Oldie outraged! Muslim horribly murders a Conservative MP and you go quiet. You're a stinking hypocrite. You absolute plank. I was clearly being outrageous and taking the piss. You appear to actually believe the crap you write. Jog on. |
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Post by baselswh on Apr 13, 2022 20:28:01 GMT
A young lad/s put up some sexist stickers against women enjoying football and you call to have them birched on the field of play at ht,then 'rub salt into their wounds'. Oldie outraged! Muslim horribly murders a Conservative MP and you go quiet. You're a stinking hypocrite. You absolute plank. I was clearly being outrageous and taking the piss. You appear to actually believe the crap you write. Jog on. Oh,well if you were taking the micky,then I apologise.Sarcasm is often not easy to pick up within the written word. This is not the first time Prevent has failed. The French do seem further down the road with their relationship with Islam. Have the French lost patience with Islam? A perfectly legitimate question. I could agree we allow the law to 'do their job',as you suggest,but I would like to see a deportation law fit for purpose.Very tough sentencing and a reintroduction of hanging. The thing that murdered David Amess got life,no release. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 14, 2022 8:53:12 GMT
Both of you, please. Keep to the point. Personal abuse is not acceptable.
Thanks.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on Apr 14, 2022 8:56:30 GMT
Both of you, please. Keep to the point. Personal abuse is not acceptable. Thanks. I thought I was being polite🤭🤭 |
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