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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 20:26:40 GMT
No we are not. its the same group, and, as Peter Parker and others have explained, inter company transactions, and not relevent.
Its about as un relevant as Bristol City not "owning" Ashton Gate or their new Training Ground (Ashron Gate ltd, Ashton Gate Holdings ltd, blah blah blah or whatever companies Lansdown has set up nowadays within the group.
Fenway own the various Liverpool assets, god knows what the comany structure is around the likes of Chelsea or Man City.
Leave it alone, you are going down a blind ally 
I think most clubs are set up this way and it only becomes an issue if a buyer turns up like one at Crystal Palace I think a few years ago. I may be wrong but I think he bought the name of the club and that was about it. The seller kept the stadium and training ground and rented it back to them. Again I don’t remember all the details but I think they were close to going to the wall until Simon Jordan rescued them Thats about right but I recall it was Simom Jordan who bought Palace from Goldberg(?), without realising the stadium was not included and was still owned by Ron Noades, a former owner. Jordan ended up having to pay for an expensive lease. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 17, 2021 21:41:55 GMT
How can any Gashead argue that it's better to rent a couple of school playing field rather than own a purpose built football training complex, even DC use to complain the physios had nowhere to treat players at Cribbs. Regardless of the position of the club itself at present this was a great move, just hope it's finished to the revised plans now we look like getting pp and isn't put on hold until we return to L1.
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Post by swissgas on Sept 18, 2021 0:43:01 GMT
But as it stands we have paid close to £4 million for something we could have got for £ 80 000 pa while a decent football team and a decent stadium are still as far away as ever. Swiss Not disputing your argument for the moment but are you saying that that the terms of the renting of pitches and facilities would be at nil additional costs above rent to Rovers? That there was no contribution from Rovers at all to the maintenance of the pitches and a no cost lease as opposed to fully repairing lease? Forgive ignorance but I don't know the details of the contracts for use of the facilities over the last 35 years as have not been a director. Also whilst I have done some tax based lending on club infrastructure I haven't had a football club as a day by day client. Further are you saying that the cost is total dead money and that the Quarters could not be mortgaged at a later date to raise cash for a stadium or when South Gloucestershire requires to meet HMG targets on housing and the planning environment changes [soon!] that the land could not later be sold for houses at a premium? Are you also saying that if we had bought a training ground 35 years ago there would have been nil value or advantage to the club? I have seen non-football companies go under on the basis that when they had a downturn they had nil assets to refinance, a failure to pay rent meant they lost premises and machinery was retained because no historic landlord's waiver was in place to enable them to retrieve assets, they could not obtain rental premises elsewhere because of their track record and the companies collapsed. Finally on your assumption, and I may have missed a comment, but I presume Stevenage are even more foolish than us as they have purchased even more land than the Gas Regards I understand the £ 80 000 pa deal at Cribbs included maintenance of the pitches. The land at Almondsbury was acquired in 2017 and in 2018 Evans Jones were commissioned to draw up plans for a modern training facility which would bring the whole of Rovers football together at one location. Around that time Wael said the training ground and stadium development would go hand in hand which seemed sensible and everyone agreed he would never have said that if finance was not available. Two years later, in March 2020, nothing more had been heard of the Evans Jones plans, Rovers were not doing very well football wise and there had been no progress at all on the stadium. The Cribbs lease was being allowed to expire so Rovers needed to make provision for new training facilities and were offered something better than Cribbs, also at 80 K pa, but declined it. A decision was then made to convert a barn and utilize twenty year old building plans to create a facility on the land which, by now, Wael owned at Almondsbury. Today, with around 4 million capital committed, we have a training ground which is just about adequate but which will cost well over 100K pa to run plus depreciation. If the club ever wanted to sell there would be no potential buyers for what has been built so the training ground has no sale value, other than whatever the land would be worth, which means Rovers could never mortgage it even if they wanted or needed to. If the club had spent its cash on buying land and building a training ground 35 years ago where would the money needed to acquire the Mem have come from ? All successful businesses work out their priorities and manage their resources carefully rather than make decisions on a whim. In my book the right decision for Rovers in March 2020 would have been to lease a training ground for £ 80 000 pa and use the £ 4 million resources which were available on the football team, on improving the business model and on solving the stadium problem. Instead we have created what I am afraid will be a millstone around our neck while the football team, business model and stadium ambitions are all still failing. In 2011 Stevenage were in a completely different situation to Rovers in 2020. They were on an upward trend and I’m sure their owner did his homework before deciding to acquire the land and build a training ground. Although they were almost immediately relegated they have managed to stay afloat, have improved their (leased) stadium and on gates of less than 3000 have broken even over the past five years. They are also above Rovers in the football league table. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 18, 2021 9:18:18 GMT
Why would a football club sell it's own training ground, unless they hit financial trouble which seems unlikely whilst Wael is our owner, if Wael ever decides to sell up then the THe Quarters would be included in the sale and so have some value, probably higher depending on which league we were in at the time.
If the likes of Mansfield, Fleetwood, Lincoln and Luton have all spent £m's on training grounds in recent years, then why is it wrong for us to do it? Soon we would have been the only lower league using school playing fields rather than our own training facilities.
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 18, 2021 9:26:00 GMT
Swiss,
Again, where was this training facility that was available for £80k pa?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 10:48:36 GMT
Swiss, Again, where was this training facility that was available for £80k pa? Looks like Swissgas has already answered. "I understand the £ 80 000 pa deal at Cribbs included maintenance of the pitches." |
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Post by hillfieldsboy55 on Sept 18, 2021 10:52:24 GMT
Maybe the BAWA on southmead rd.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 10:57:45 GMT
Why would a football club sell it's own training ground, unless they hit financial trouble which seems unlikely whilst Wael is our owner, if Wael ever decides to sell up then the THe Quarters would be included in the sale and so have some value, probably higher depending on which league we were in at the time. If the likes of Mansfield, Fleetwood, Lincoln and Luton have all spent £m's on training grounds in recent years, then why is it wrong for us to do it? Soon we would have been the only lower league using school playing fields rather than our own training facilities. Exeter have just received planning approval for the final stage of The Cliff Hill Training Ground. All of the pitches and the floodlit 3g were completed some time ago leaving just the new buildings to replace the original ones. This has all been done on leased land. There is nothing wrong with investing in leased properties as long as you have security and many businesses choose to lease rather than tie up capital which can be used to progress a business.  |
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Post by petecolley on Sept 18, 2021 11:28:59 GMT
Didn't we lease Eastville Stadium ?
Look what happened there.
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Post by Bath Gas on Sept 18, 2021 11:46:19 GMT
Didn't we lease Eastville Stadium ? Look what happened there. I think you're only allowed to give positive examples, which suit the narrative. |
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Post by laughinggas on Sept 18, 2021 11:51:06 GMT
So, the club git it wrong. What should they be doing with the training ground now an future?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 11:53:09 GMT
Didn't we lease Eastville Stadium ? Look what happened there. You missed what I wrote, it's all about the security. Don't forget, UWE was going to be built on leased land. edit: I'm not saying the Quarters is a good or bad deal, all I am saying is that sometimes leasing can be the best option depending on the options and finance available. |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 18, 2021 12:37:46 GMT
Swiss, Again, where was this training facility that was available for £80k pa? Looks like Swissgas has already answered. "I understand the £ 80 000 pa deal at Cribbs included maintenance of the pitches." If it was Cribbs, it wasn’t good enough, not anywhere near good enough for an EFL club in the 21st century. Cribbs was also never going to be renewed past the existing lease. The club were told this at the last renewal. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354 
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 18, 2021 14:31:24 GMT
I stand corrected, i thought Wael had degrees from either Oxford/Cambridge and Harvard, i know nothing of Hank’s education. Willie and Hank seem to have had very good educations including their spelling! 😂 Willy and Hank are fine with it. After all, they did spend time in the good ole U S OF A |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 18, 2021 14:35:14 GMT
What us young uns, of the 70’sused to call portacabins, we got used to that as my school was burned down in 75 so we had lots of terrapins in place and used as temporary classrooms but temporary ended up being around 8-9 years. Used to be Kingswood grammar then Kingsfield now Kings oak academy. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 18, 2021 14:40:57 GMT
No, I never mentioned £ 150 000 pa for rent LG it must have been someone else. And it's been confirmed to me that a training ground considered better than Cribbs was available in Spring 2020 for £ 80 000 pa but Rovers turned it down. With another potential training ground, which could have been substantially better than Cribbs, also available at the same time and at a similar price but no enquiry was made. Sorry you are correct, not £150,000 but £100,000. Oct 14 2019 Currently the club is paying £100 000 pa for rented training facilities Apr 18 2021 If the project is completed we will have spent about £4 million for a training ground we could probably have leased for £100 000 pa and which would only be worth the land value of about £1 million if we (BRFC 1883 / Dwane Sports / Dwane Colony) ever wanted to sell it. But the main thrust is its Wael’s property and not the clubs nor team, we are paying our owner to rent this facility, ring any bells with previous directors ? |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 19, 2021 6:17:43 GMT
Sorry you are correct, not £150,000 but £100,000. Oct 14 2019 Currently the club is paying £100 000 pa for rented training facilities Apr 18 2021 If the project is completed we will have spent about £4 million for a training ground we could probably have leased for £100 000 pa and which would only be worth the land value of about £1 million if we (BRFC 1883 / Dwane Sports / Dwane Colony) ever wanted to sell it. But the main thrust is its Wael’s property and not the clubs nor team, we are paying our owner to rent this facility, ring any bells with previous directors ? Which is a nonsense Jools because Wael is the majority share holder of all things BRFC. All parts of the club are owned by DS. This 3rd party spin is something that the supporters club have tried to use against Wael for some reason I can’t understand. |
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Post by a more piratey game on Sept 19, 2021 6:49:30 GMT
But the main thrust is its Wael’s property and not the clubs nor team, we are paying our owner to rent this facility, ring any bells with previous directors ? Which is a nonsense Jools because Wael is the majority share holder of all things BRFC. All parts of the club are owned by DS. This 3rd party spin is something that the supporters club have tried to use against Wael for some reason I can’t understand. Yes you can. It's a bit of spurious nonsense intended to undermine any positive perceptions of Wael One of many bits of similar nonsense from the organisation that voted to dilute its own shareholding (and thereby influence) The two reasons for this pattern of behaviour are most often thought to be reduced personal influence and insight for the SC leaders following the AQ takeover (with no irony acknowledged!), and then a preference for new owners under Frooty proposals |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 7:07:18 GMT
But the main thrust is its Wael’s property and not the clubs nor team, we are paying our owner to rent this facility, ring any bells with previous directors ? Which is a nonsense Jools because Wael is the majority share holder of all things BRFC. All parts of the club are owned by DS. This 3rd party spin is something that the supporters club have tried to use against Wael for some reason I can’t understand. Exactly and no different to when Geoff Dunford was the majority owner of BRFC and also owned The Beeches. |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 19, 2021 8:13:54 GMT
Which is a nonsense Jools because Wael is the majority share holder of all things BRFC. All parts of the club are owned by DS. This 3rd party spin is something that the supporters club have tried to use against Wael for some reason I can’t understand. Exactly and no different to when Geoff Dunford was the majority owner of BRFC and also owned The Beeches. Slightly different because the beaches were not a club owned asset in that regard or rather, the beaches weren’t built to be a functional support arm to the club and GD was charging the club for use. The quarters are a training facility owned by DS. DS being the holding company for all club business. |
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