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Post by swissgas on May 2, 2021 16:29:02 GMT
Thats the one. God knows what Swiss is doing on a page 203, the one signed of by the auditors had 128 pages. Feel free to challenge that one till your heart is content. Stands up well in a global pandemic as far as I can see. And as far as Wael financing the clubs annual losses going foward, are you aware of his or the family investments?
But will let the usual suspects 'speculate' as they like to do
The full Annual Report, including the Arabic version, has 298 pages.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 2, 2021 23:04:17 GMT
Once again you are misrepresenting me. I have never said we don’t need one, never ever. What I have seen and heard, are unfulfilled promises As for us attaining academy status, I will believe it when I can see it. Ok. You made it clear you thought providing a Training ground for BRFC was a distraction and that it was better to concentrate on the team, before priaisng Lansdown for providing a Training ground. My mistake, apologies.
You keep on twisting what others say but that’s your MO. For the record, I said what use is a training ground if you are out of the league or words to that effect. Report says must pay more attention in class.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 2, 2021 23:07:55 GMT
Thats the one. God knows what Swiss is doing on a page 203, the one signed of by the auditors had 128 pages. Feel free to challenge that one till your heart is content. Stands up well in a global pandemic as far as I can see. And as far as Wael financing the clubs annual losses going foward, are you aware of his or the family investments?
But will let the usual suspects 'speculate' as they like to do
Are you ?
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on May 2, 2021 23:26:38 GMT
KP, you have been arguing against the need for BRFC to invest in a Training Ground which will house the Academy.
Its not a very coherent argument you are putting forward as from the above it seems to me WAQ has taken the same approach and done the same other than come up with the stadium
Once again you are misrepresenting me. I have never said we don’t need one, never ever. What I have seen and heard, are unfulfilled promises As for us attaining academy status, I will believe it when I can see it. I believe our academy is a category 3 one. City’s is category 2. The rating depends on facilities and the number of coaching staff etc.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 7:48:58 GMT
No it doesn't.
From what I could tell, AJIB performance has been OK. Operating profit last year was up something like 18% I believe, and all looked pretty rosey even with the temp measures due to Covid. There were no red flags in their annual report from what I could see when I looked.
Has anyone bothered to challenge Swiss' 'speculation' I wonder?
My previous post was not trying to directly compare Lansdwon v WAQ, merely point out the standard buisness practices
You didn’t look closely enough at the AJIB annual report then. On page 203 you would have found : Profit for the year 2020. JD. 11,536 703 Profit for the year 2019. JD. 16,203 239 Wael should have told you that the increase in profits relates to the first quarter of 2021 but I make it 14% not 18%. When Dwane Sports took over in 2016 the AJIB was making profits of JD 22 million and its share price was near JD 2.00. Now the profits have halved and the share price dropped to JD 1.13. The entire Al-Qadi family holding is about 26% so their income from this source is about JD 3 million which is much less than Rovers lose every year. What is the point of misrepresenting the situation ? Do you think it helps Wael or Rovers to do so ?
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss?
For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they should be personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 376
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Post by bondigas on May 3, 2021 9:10:06 GMT
One doth protest too much, you don't need to feel uncomfortable referencing some of these matters, I'm sure you have had permission. The tourism industry in Jordan is doing as well as Rovers, Petra used to receive 8000 visitors a day, that's now down to 20.
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trunky
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 230
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Post by trunky on May 3, 2021 9:29:12 GMT
It seems like every season our board manages to s--- on us from an even greater height.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,200
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Post by eppinggas on May 3, 2021 9:47:30 GMT
You didn’t look closely enough at the AJIB annual report then. On page 203 you would have found : Profit for the year 2020. JD. 11,536 703 Profit for the year 2019. JD. 16,203 239 Wael should have told you that the increase in profits relates to the first quarter of 2021 but I make it 14% not 18%. When Dwane Sports took over in 2016 the AJIB was making profits of JD 22 million and its share price was near JD 2.00. Now the profits have halved and the share price dropped to JD 1.13. The entire Al-Qadi family holding is about 26% so their income from this source is about JD 3 million which is much less than Rovers lose every year. What is the point of misrepresenting the situation ? Do you think it helps Wael or Rovers to do so ?
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss? For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they are deeply personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 10:01:29 GMT
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss? For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they are deeply personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know? I've just edited Epping to read 'should be'.
Thats my view anyway
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,200
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Post by eppinggas on May 3, 2021 10:06:21 GMT
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know? I've just edited Epping to read 'should be'.
Thats my view anyway
Shouldn't that be "could be"? As this relates to your opinion, and is not a 'fact'. Apologies, I'm a bit of a stickler for separating opinion from fact. I respect your opinion...
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 10:10:08 GMT
I've just edited Epping to read 'should be'.
Thats my view anyway
Shouldn't that be "could be"? As this relates to your opinion, and is not a 'fact'. Apologies, I'm a bit of a stickler for separating opinion from fact. I respect your opinion...
I believe they should be personal
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Post by droitwichgas on May 3, 2021 10:15:55 GMT
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss? For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they are deeply personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know? What none of us really know is just how wealthy the late Mr Al-Qadi was and how much of that wealth was passed on to Wael. The fact within just a few months Wael was able to write off our near £20m debt and also commence work at the Quarters suggest he inherited a tidy sum. Hopefully he's got more financial sense than the usual lottery winner and so hasn't spent a large slice of his inheritance already.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 10:18:10 GMT
You didn’t look closely enough at the AJIB annual report then. On page 203 you would have found : Profit for the year 2020. JD. 11,536 703 Profit for the year 2019. JD. 16,203 239 Wael should have told you that the increase in profits relates to the first quarter of 2021 but I make it 14% not 18%. When Dwane Sports took over in 2016 the AJIB was making profits of JD 22 million and its share price was near JD 2.00. Now the profits have halved and the share price dropped to JD 1.13. The entire Al-Qadi family holding is about 26% so their income from this source is about JD 3 million which is much less than Rovers lose every year. What is the point of misrepresenting the situation ? Do you think it helps Wael or Rovers to do so ?
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss?
For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they should be personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone Good. At last some evidence to demonstrate how Wael is going to cover the losses he's running up. Can we get a list of what his additional income streams are please and what their performances have been in recent years? Many thanks.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,200
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Post by eppinggas on May 3, 2021 10:18:20 GMT
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know? What none of us really know is just how wealthy the late Mr Al-Qadi was and how much of that wealth was passed on to Wael. The fact within just a few months Wael was able to write off our near £20m debt and also commence work at the Quarters suggest he inherited a tidy sum. Hopefully he's got more financial sense than the usual lottery winner and so hasn't spent a large slice of his inheritance already. That's a pretty big "hopefully". But as you rightly say... "we don't know".
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 10:21:14 GMT
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know? What none of us really know is just how wealthy the late Mr Al-Qadi was and how much of that wealth was passed on to Wael. The fact within just a few months Wael was able to write off our near £20m debt and also commence work at the Quarters suggest he inherited a tidy sum. Hopefully he's got more financial sense than the usual lottery winner and so hasn't spent a large slice of his inheritance already. Was it £20m? We know that's what the local press said, but they don't always get everything right. £12m is the number that makes more sense. And, yet again, nothing at all has been 'written off'. All investment is secured against the stadium, or at least that's my understanding, but if someone can demonstrate that this is incorrect I would be delighted to be corrected.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 3, 2021 10:26:46 GMT
What none of us really know is just how wealthy the late Mr Al-Qadi was and how much of that wealth was passed on to Wael. The fact within just a few months Wael was able to write off our near £20m debt and also commence work at the Quarters suggest he inherited a tidy sum. Hopefully he's got more financial sense than the usual lottery winner and so hasn't spent a large slice of his inheritance already. Was it £20m? We know that's what the local press said, but they don't always get everything right. £12m is the number that makes more sense. And, yet again, nothing at all has been 'written off'. All investment is secured against the stadium, or at least that's my understanding, but if someone can demonstrate that this is incorrect I would be delighted to be corrected. Thought it was at least £18m? The debts been cleared so it's not offset against the Mem, Wael could insist he wants his £18m+ back if he ever decides to sell the club but it's not a debt he can call in against the Mem. The charge on the Mem seems to me meaningless Rovers security wise, as he could always sell the Mem, as Birmingham City etc owners have done, and there's little we could do about it.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 10:49:40 GMT
Was it £20m? We know that's what the local press said, but they don't always get everything right. £12m is the number that makes more sense. And, yet again, nothing at all has been 'written off'. All investment is secured against the stadium, or at least that's my understanding, but if someone can demonstrate that this is incorrect I would be delighted to be corrected. Thought it was at least £18m? The debts been cleared so it's not offset against the Mem, Wael could insist he wants his £18m+ back if he ever decides to sell the club but it's not a debt he can call in against the Mem. The charge on the Mem seems to me meaningless Rovers security wise, as he could always sell the Mem, as Birmingham City etc owners have done, and there's little we could do about it. £18m doesn't work based on previous shareholdings. The charge would be kind of meaningless in the absence of external debt, and broadly OK if Rovers held a covenant which gave them security of tenure, but as far as I'm aware they don't.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 3, 2021 11:04:04 GMT
Once again you are misrepresenting me. I have never said we don’t need one, never ever. What I have seen and heard, are unfulfilled promises As for us attaining academy status, I will believe it when I can see it. I believe our academy is a category 3 one. City’s is category 2. The rating depends on facilities and the number of coaching staff etc. I really need to shake of the cobwebs from this pandemic as I thought we had not yet attained academy status. Thank you for putting me right
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 3, 2021 11:10:53 GMT
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss? For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they are deeply personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone
I'm sure swiss will respond in due course. I admire your spirited defence. But my money's on swiss. As for the emboldened. How do you know? He won’t answer but will deflect with other things. I have asked a couple of things but not got answers.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 11:19:02 GMT
You seem to have gone a bit quiet on this Swiss?
For this to be in any way meaningful rather than just use AJIB shareholding you need to include all the other sources of income for WAQ, such as
-The various other shareholdings he has and their financial performance
-The shareholdings for his share of the estate of his father similarly
-Details of his savings/investments over the years and their performance
-Details of his share of savings/investments for the estate of his father
I think you will find WAQ has substantial interests in the toursim industry and others that may or may not be in the public domain.
Without the above, your figures mean nothing.
I recall you saying in reference to WAQ "If a job is worth doing, its worth doing well", so I'm surprised you have provided such limited information here. You are also fond of saying that WAQ needs to be challenged so that he doesnt repeadedly make mistakes, so this also gives you the opportunuity to pull together a full picture rather than make the mistake of drawing conclusions based on such limited information.
Frankly I'm a tad uncomfortable referencing some of these matters on a public forum as they should be personal to WAQ and his family but if you start going down the road you have you need to see it through, as otherwise some people might think you had 'an agenda'
Until you can provide this full info we can file under Fiction/Speculation or plain old sh*t stirring.
Good luck in your quest for the comprehensive financial information that will make it meaningful.
Some people will have been taken in by your limited analysis
Luckily not everyone Good.
At last some evidence to demonstrate how Wael is going to cover the losses he's running up.
Can we get a list of what his additional income streams are please and what their performances have been in recent years?
Many thanks.Thats your job, as you and Swiss are suggesting that WAQ has insufficient funds to fund the club. So, to back up those claims, provide the evidence. You have made a start with AJIB performance last year. So list the performance of the others and people can judge. As a reminder, its the other returns on shareholdings for WAQ as an individual, plus the shareholdings for the estate. And then the performance of his various personal savings and investments of him (and the estate) over the years. You must have this, as otherwise surely you wouldn't make the claim in the first place, as if you did that it would be baseless and you would look foolish. As Swiss would say 'I hate to see WAQ humiliated like this'. We wouldn't want to see that here either through anyone making baseless claims that could not be evidenced. So the evidence must be out there. I'm sure you will be happy to help Swiss find all the info needed to back up the "claims", and then that "speculation" about WAQ's ability to fund the club can be put to bed once and for all.
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