eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 13, 2020 15:30:23 GMT
Football behind closed doors update. Union 1 Schalke 1. Schalke were bloody lucky to score with effectively their only shot on target. Union should have gone in at HT at least 3 goals to the good. Anyhow... there was a bit of noise from somewhere, maybe the subs/medical staff were having a bit of a sing song. I understand when the PL resumes it will have 'sound effects'? Footy on TV behind closed doors is... a bit pants. But it's better than nothing and I still enjoyed this afternoons German football. Eisern Union! Yeah that was quite a big point there for Union. One more win should see them safe now. Should have won though. It's interesting that the trend of away team winning shows little sign of easing up. That's definitely something to watch out for when the Prem comes back. If we go another season without fans I wonder if teams will try some tricks to increase levels of home advantage - letting the grass grow or putting in minimum/maximum pitch dimensions.
I thought the piped in atmosphere thing would be complete nonense but I have to be honest and say that the game I enjoyed most was Dortmund v Bayern because watched a US broadcast of it that did exactly that. It was a bit like a computer game with the crowd noises responsive to the action. It was obviously nothing like the real thing but I'm a bit embarrassed to admint that it definitely improved my experience of the game. I obviously have some kind of pavlov's dog reaction to crowd noise. It clearly felt real to me on some level despite constantly telling myself that it clearly wasn't. Maybe that wears off in time and it comes predicatble. A weird experience but I'd be lying if I was that I didn't prefer it to the eerie silence.
Yay! Cologne 1 Union Berlin 2 and almost certain to stay up now. I've enjoyed the German football behind closed doors. Agree that a bit of artificial background noise might help when the premiers**t starts again. Eisern.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 17, 2020 8:31:41 GMT
Football Behind Closed Doors (BCD). The premiership is back tonight... I did find the first couple of games in the Bundesliga quite eerie and surreal. The various Cubs have added cut outs and screens and after a while you kind of get used to it. It becomes 'normal'. Union Berlin secured safety last night with a 1-0 win over Paderborn (the latter being relegated on the back of it). With the PL introducing background noise - as per Irish's earlier comment - I think it will work fine. You do a need a side to 'support' though. Watching the PL (which I kind of despise) as a neutral, doesn't really appeal. I think I'd prefer to watch how the Bundesliga pans out. Union were 4-6 odds-on to go down at the start of the season, staying up is a massive achievement for the Club. They stuck to their principles. Highly rated striker Sebastian Poulter (30 goals in 72 starts) refused to take a pay cut during Covid, so Union refused to play him during the crucial end of season period. Level on points with Hertha with 2 games to go... and they are still top of the 'most fouls committed' table...
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 17, 2020 10:32:26 GMT
Football Behind Closed Doors (BCD). The premiership is back tonight... I did find the first couple of games in the Bundesliga quite eerie and surreal. The various Cubs have added cut outs and screens and after a while you kind of get used to it. It becomes 'normal'. Union Berlin secured safety last night with a 1-0 win over Paderborn (the latter being relegated on the back of it). With the PL introducing background noise - as per Irish's earlier comment - I think it will work fine. You do a need a side to 'support' though. Watching the PL (which I kind of despise) as a neutral, doesn't really appeal. I think I'd prefer to watch how the Bundesliga pans out. Union were 4-6 odds-on to go down at the start of the season, staying up is a massive achievement for the Club. They stuck to their principles. Highly rated striker Sebastian Poulter (30 goals in 72 starts) refused to take a pay cut during Covid, so Union refused to play him during the crucial end of season period. Level on points with Hertha with 2 games to go... and they are still top of the 'most fouls committed' table... That is a fantastic achievement by Union - they are total minnows in that division and have stayed up pretty comfortably. The most interesting thing in the Bundesliga is the relegation battle with Werder continuing the recent trends of traditional powerhouses struggling. Stuttgart, Kaiserslautern, Nuremberg, Cologne, Hamberg and Hanover have all had periods in the lower leagues in recent years. Looks like Werder might join them despite a significant pickup post-lockdown. Dusseldorf keep doing just enough to keep ahead of them.
I've been watching La Liga because I must be the only person in the country with Premier Sports subscription (because I like Ice Hockey). I haven't enjoyed it was much as Bundesliga. I think partly that's just a preference for the more direct physical play you get in Germany compared with Spain. But La Liga is also quite top heavy and frankly there's a lot of quite average football played in it. I also wonder if it's simply too hot for players to play 2/3 games a week in Spain at the moment and maintain the quality. I've definitely enjoyed it less.
Watching La Liga your point about 'picking a side' really hit home. Without the crowd to insert some passion that does become quite important. Quite easy to do in a Premier League context - we all have years of arbritary built up resentments so should be able to easily identify which team we dislike more-nothing will make things feel more normal than taking a random dislike of Watford!
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 18, 2020 8:23:45 GMT
Football Behind Closed Doors (BCD). The premiership is back tonight... I did find the first couple of games in the Bundesliga quite eerie and surreal. The various Cubs have added cut outs and screens and after a while you kind of get used to it. It becomes 'normal'. Union Berlin secured safety last night with a 1-0 win over Paderborn (the latter being relegated on the back of it). With the PL introducing background noise - as per Irish's earlier comment - I think it will work fine. You do a need a side to 'support' though. Watching the PL (which I kind of despise) as a neutral, doesn't really appeal. I think I'd prefer to watch how the Bundesliga pans out. Union were 4-6 odds-on to go down at the start of the season, staying up is a massive achievement for the Club. They stuck to their principles. Highly rated striker Sebastian Poulter (30 goals in 72 starts) refused to take a pay cut during Covid, so Union refused to play him during the crucial end of season period. Level on points with Hertha with 2 games to go... and they are still top of the 'most fouls committed' table... That is a fantastic achievement by Union - they are total minnows in that division and have stayed up pretty comfortably. The most interesting thing in the Bundesliga is the relegation battle with Werder continuing the recent trends of traditional powerhouses struggling. Stuttgart, Kaiserslautern, Nuremberg, Cologne, Hamberg and Hanover have all had periods in the lower leagues in recent years. Looks like Werder might join them despite a significant pickup post-lockdown. Dusseldorf keep doing just enough to keep ahead of them.
I've been watching La Liga because I must be the only person in the country with Premier Sports subscription (because I like Ice Hockey). I haven't enjoyed it was much as Bundesliga. I think partly that's just a preference for the more direct physical play you get in Germany compared with Spain. But La Liga is also quite top heavy and frankly there's a lot of quite average football played in it. I also wonder if it's simply too hot for players to play 2/3 games a week in Spain at the moment and maintain the quality. I've definitely enjoyed it less.
Watching La Liga your point about 'picking a side' really hit home. Without the crowd to insert some passion that does become quite important. Quite easy to do in a Premier League context - we all have years of arbritary built up resentments so should be able to easily identify which team we dislike more-nothing will make things feel more normal than taking a random dislike of Watford!
Obviously I'm a big admirer of German football... structure, quality of play, ownership model, fans, and much less blatant cheating, diving, appealing for players to get carded that you see in the PL. Good win for Mainz last night, they are pretty much safe. So Bremen or Dusseldorf are either relegated or in the play-off spot. I don't know who's playing in the PL and don't really care. As you say, for me it's more of a case of hoping which PL teams lose. Man united for me, and add to that Brighton, Watford and West Ham for whining about playing out the season.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 18, 2020 8:44:56 GMT
Obviously I'm a big admirer of German football... structure, quality of play, ownership model, fans, and much less blatant cheating, diving, appealing for players to get carded that you see in the PL. that's the league that Bayern have won 8 years running, isn't it?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 18, 2020 8:53:40 GMT
Obviously I'm a big admirer of German football... structure, quality of play, ownership model, fans, and much less blatant cheating, diving, appealing for players to get carded that you see in the PL. that's the league that Bayern have won 8 years running, isn't it? Yeah. Shame there isn't more competition for the very top prize. But the rest of the league is very competitive. And better quality. And less cheating. And more respect for the officials. And better atmosphere in the stadiums. And with better application of VAR. And an ownership model that (largely) directly involves supporters. And has Clubs telling the TV companies when they want their games played not the other way around. And has a sustainable model. And has strong governance. But if you prefer watching PL and all that goes with it... That's fine, it's a free country.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jun 18, 2020 10:08:44 GMT
On topic, I watched the manc v arse game last night and won’t be wasting my time watching anymore of this prem season. Football without crowds = something that is not football. It was pre season tournament level minus any interest from atmosphere or looking for pointers for the new season from new signings. They don’t have to complete it in the same way the leagues below championship didn’t complete, except of course to secure the vast sums of tv revenue, so sport just going through the motions is the most unEngaging type of sport.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 18, 2020 11:52:15 GMT
Obviously I'm a big admirer of German football... structure, quality of play, ownership model, fans, and much less blatant cheating, diving, appealing for players to get carded that you see in the PL. that's the league that Bayern have won 8 years running, isn't it? Yes -that's the problem. German football would be fantastic if it wasn't for Bayern ruining the competition because below that it's extremely competitive. They genuinely tried to join Serie A in the late 90s because they felt they were disadvantaged playing in the Bundesliga. A lot of German fans would have been happy to see them go.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jun 18, 2020 15:36:25 GMT
Sky and mass media trying to hype the return of football as a shot in the arm for the public mood.
Pathetic!!
I watched last 25 mins of the Man C versus Arsenal game. It was so incredibly dull. A training match at best. The big danger is that they are de-valuing the product and this will have an impact on the future.
It's all the sanctimonious clap-trap that gets me. The bended knee after the kick-off. Can you imagine a side with e.g Jack Charlton in allowing that to happen.
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basel
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Post by basel on Jun 18, 2020 18:32:45 GMT
Sky and mass media trying to hype the return of football as a shot in the arm for the public mood. Pathetic!! I watched last 25 mins of the Man C versus Arsenal game. It was so incredibly dull. A training match at best. The big danger is that they are de-valuing the product and this will have an impact on the future. It's all the sanctimonious clap-trap that gets me. The bended knee after the kick-off. Can you imagine a side with e.g Jack Charlton in allowing that to happen. Some good points.I suppose Sky might lose a few customers from their legions of armchair footy fans,but assuming things get back to normal they'll return I reckon. The Premier and media have devalued the game for years now.Greed and ego. What happens to a player that won't take the knee?Will his wishes be respected or will he be labelled a racist and his life made a misery?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jun 19, 2020 4:02:54 GMT
I’m also not sure about the taking the knee when it’s scripted like that. It’s got to mean something, it’s got to carry an emotional connection to,something tangible, but it won’t if it’s commercialised. I’m reminded of the Henry Miller line in Quiet Days... sex is unromantic especially when it’s commercialised. This is what all the politicians with their stage managed photo ops are doing to it, sucking the romance out of it. Like poppy wearing is all the better for not having to, if everyone had to and you are snitched on or abused for not doing so, it would lose its meaning. So when all players, as matter of pre match ritual now, go down, can you tell the difference from those who really feel it down there, from those who just go through the motion? You have got to want to, and you have got to care about the social injustice that lies behind it, otherwise you shouldn’t be down there.
Manc and Arse were just going through the motions in the game, but maybe the scrap to avoid the drop, and the scrap to get into the prem might conjure up some real games? The other team that play in Bristol still have it in their own hands when you look at their fixtures.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 19, 2020 8:52:27 GMT
Sky and mass media trying to hype the return of football as a shot in the arm for the public mood. Pathetic!! I watched last 25 mins of the Man C versus Arsenal game. It was so incredibly dull. A training match at best. The big danger is that they are de-valuing the product and this will have an impact on the future. It's all the sanctimonious clap-trap that gets me. The bended knee after the kick-off. Can you imagine a side with e.g Jack Charlton in allowing that to happen. Some good points.I suppose Sky might lose a few customers from their legions of armchair footy fans,but assuming things get back to normal they'll return I reckon. The Premier and media have devalued the game for years now.Greed and ego. What happens to a player that won't take the knee?Will his wishes be respected or will he be labelled a racist and his life made a misery? I’ve been busy so much so that this is the first I’ve heard of it. Who are they bending the knee for, is this some kind of GoT thing ?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jun 19, 2020 10:41:04 GMT
If it was a GoT thing it would have evolved as getting your tits out and riding your dragon. Not something you would get away with on tiktok the Chinese wouldn’t allow it.
If I was a politician, I would much rather deliver the housing, education, life chances not shaped so early like a self fulfilling prophecy, and equality under the law and law enforcement, than take the knee and not deliver that. Liverpool were quick to go down on one knee for a photo op. But not so long ago they closed ranks around Saurez racism. Going against the herd, Calling things out and doing something about it requires more courage, is damn harder and much more divisive than the cosy gimmicks we are seeing.
I agree with Vaughan. The return of football was packaged and sold to us as another good step to normality. But it didn’t look normal. It just looked weird. It’s actually got me more worried now about the future of football on these shores, our rich depth of opportunity on a Saturday to follow something other than the Premiership. To which I blame the naughty bug not the government, though interested as to what the government will do to conserve and maintain a rich tradition in this country from financial ruin, considering the Crasters of our football are private ventures, some with strong financial backing and some without.
Crasters! Now there is a GoT reference.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jun 19, 2020 13:31:08 GMT
Excellent points by The Emperor.
I find this contrived virtue signalling nauseating.
We live in "relatively" one of the best multi-cultural societies in the world. We have moved on so much from the society I grew up in.
Too many people think that getting things done is about gestures and adding the latest flavour of hashtag to their 2 sentence tweets.
Evidence, detail, analysis, policy, execution. Nah, that's too difficult or not salty enough.
On a football front, I do think that our best chance is to emphasise our cultural difference to the Prem and now Championship.
It's certainly a bit s**t, sometimes a bit raw, but it is authentic and something our fathers would identify with as a genuine football experience.
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basel
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Post by basel on Jun 19, 2020 15:39:17 GMT
Some good points.I suppose Sky might lose a few customers from their legions of armchair footy fans,but assuming things get back to normal they'll return I reckon. The Premier and media have devalued the game for years now.Greed and ego. What happens to a player that won't take the knee?Will his wishes be respected or will he be labelled a racist and his life made a misery? I’ve been busy so much so that this is the first I’ve heard of it. Who are they bending the knee for, is this some kind of GoT thing ? It's to show support and solidarity to the BLM protest.An organisation with strong links to the Marxist far Left.So some people might not want to kneel down and worship Marx whose philosophy got 100,000,000 million killed in the last century. The way things are in football, not kneeling down for BLM ,is on par with coming out as gay.Both would sadly take some guts.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jun 20, 2020 7:13:31 GMT
Everybody who is kneeling is not kneeling for the same thing. Some are asking am I not a man and a brother? others are doing it as a tactic, a business tactic, a political tactic, an ‘ensuring you marchers aren’t antagonistic to me policing it’ tactic.
When something is hijacked for commercial reasons it sucks all previous meaning out of it. It sucks all the spirituality out of it. For example Christmas, Easter, and increasingly Remembrance Day. When something is hijacked for political reasons, you cannot return to previous meanings without reference to the new association, for example futharks becoming swastikas, Beethoven’s Ode to Joy setting associated to EU. And relevant to ourselves, songs adopted by organisations.
We have adopted Leadbellys version of Goodnight Irene, itself may have originated from older mountain tunes and songs brought to US from England. Leadbellys version tells of the singer's relationship with love of his life and express his sadness and frustrations to the point of suicide - so fits nicely as a football anthem for us, we can sing it with true meaning and an emotional connection to the original. And I say that without a wink or a smile. Swing low, on the other hand, sung at Twickenham, is clearly a song of the Underground Railroad; amongst reference to Elijha’s ascending to heaven might be original references to passage to freedoms found further north in America or Canada, sentiments in the song the nicely inebriated egg chasing crowd likely have no knowledge of or emotional connection to.
However God represented by whirlwind and flaming chariots does read across from swing low to the chariots of fire line in Blake’s poetry used by Parry for the hymn Jerusalem. This is another much adopted song, almost entirely sung by people without much understanding of what they actually saying, so, much like the adoption of a rune as a swastika, fabricates its own meaning. Blake for example wrote these lines genuinely fascinated by the tales of Christ visiting England, before his ministry when Josh was working for his Uncle Jo. And the dark Satanic Mill was a real building, gutted by fire. But the singers of the hymn prefer to have their own meaning where all this is allegorical, whilst, ironically, glossing over Blake’s sexual metaphor.
Not all who sing with you sing the same thing. Not all who kneel are kneeling for the same thing.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 20, 2020 11:39:11 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/53119479Interesting development in France: "Stadiums will re-open to fans in France from 11 July as the country continues to lift coronavirus restrictions. Up to 5,000 fans will be allowed in arenas to watch live sport - a figure that may increase later in the summer".
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basel
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Post by basel on Jun 20, 2020 11:50:10 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/53119479Interesting development in France: "Stadiums will re-open to fans in France from 11 July as the country continues to lift coronavirus restrictions. Up to 5,000 fans will be allowed in arenas to watch live sport - a figure that may increase later in the summer". I assume season ticket holders will be at the front of the queue?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 20, 2020 15:05:19 GMT
I’ve been busy so much so that this is the first I’ve heard of it. Who are they bending the knee for, is this some kind of GoT thing ? It's to show support and solidarity to the BLM protest.An organisation with strong links to the Marxist far Left.So some people might not want to kneel down and worship Marx whose philosophy got 100,000,000 million killed in the last century. The way things are in football, not kneeling down for BLM ,is on par with coming out as gay.Both would sadly take some guts. Thanks. As the son of proud Poles, I’m well aware of Karl Marx. If not for Poland fighting back the red army in 1920 and heavily outnumbered, we could well be speaking Ruski now. This is why Stalin never forgave Poles and Poland & also why he tried to eliminate all intelligentsia, in the woods of Katyn. look Up The miracle on The vistula or cud nad Wisła.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 20, 2020 15:08:29 GMT
Excellent points by The Emperor. I find this contrived virtue signalling nauseating. We live in "relatively" one of the best multi-cultural societies in the world. We have moved on so much from the society I grew up in. Too many people think that getting things done is about gestures and adding the latest flavour of hashtag to their 2 sentence tweets. Evidence, detail, analysis, policy, execution. Nah, that's too difficult or not salty enough. On a football front, I do think that our best chance is to emphasise our cultural difference to the Prem and now Championship. It's certainly a bit s***, sometimes a bit raw, but it is authentic and something our fathers would identify with as a genuine football experience. I guess you don’t use Facebook ? I’m saddened to say that not only our club but a large proportion of others, still have a large amount of racists but conveniently wrapped in the flag of nationalism
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