Rex
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Post by Rex on Mar 1, 2020 7:38:20 GMT
If Steve K can come up with any more than 'It was fing s***e' then he deserves some kind of journalistic award.
That was as bad as I have seen in a long, long time. It would be some achievement if we got relegated considering the position we were in when Garner took over, but I am beginning to believe if anyone is capable of that, he is.
Having said that, I do think we will stay up, thanks to the points deductions and expulsion, so we may as well stick with him to at least the end of the season. The question is, if we do see some kind of improvement between now and the end of the season, do we give him a pre season and a run at the start, or get rid ASAP.
One thing is certain, if things stay as they are, we would be overwhelming favourites for the drop next time round.
On a more positive note, those who were worried when we sat 4th in the table, about just how we might cope should we get into the championship, need no longer have that concern.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 8:44:36 GMT
those who were worried when we sat 4th in the table, about just how we might cope should we get into the championship, need no longer have that concern. I didn't get that at all. Many thought we actually needed to avoid promotion! Placed fourth, I didn't believe we would sustain a promotion challenge. But to get beat most weeks in the second division did not worry me, as long as we didn't overspend to try staying up. If you didn't overspend, would it not be beneficial to go up and come back down again? To yo-yo between the second and third divisions? I'd be right up for that, personally. If we went on to keep repeating it, then one day we might grow into the second division. It certainly might be fun finding out.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 1, 2020 8:47:41 GMT
those who were worried when we sat 4th in the table, about just how we might cope should we get into the championship, need no longer have that concern. I didn't get that at all. Many thought we actually needed to avoid promotion! Placed fourth, I didn't believe we would sustain a promotion challenge. But to get beat most weeks in the second division, did not worry me, as long as we didn't overspend to try staying up. If you didn't overspend, would it not be beneficial to go up and come back down again? To yo-yo between the second and third divisions? I'd be right up for that, personally. If we went on to keep repeating it, then one day we might grow into the second division. It certainly might be fun finding out. My thoughts exactly. City seemed to have enjoyed the benefits of being a former yo-yo club. More importantly, as you said, it might be fun!
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 1, 2020 8:52:05 GMT
It feels reminiscent of the last embers days of Mark McGhee/Paul Buckle/Ian Atkins.
No heart on the pitch, confused formation with players playing out of position poorly, no fight or spirit and a loyal crowd (nearly 7000 yesterday? Amazing!) that turn up but are constantly disappointed.
To think that some want Kenny Jacket out of Portsmouth, or there's loud voicing of likkle Lee SheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedHead.....?
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Mar 1, 2020 8:53:13 GMT
If Steve K can come up with any more than 'It was fing s***e' then he deserves some kind of journalistic award. That was as bad as I have seen in a long, long time. It would be some achievement if we got relegated considering the position we were in when Garner took over, but I am beginning to believe if anyone is capable of that, he is. Having said that, I do think we will stay up, thanks to the points deductions and expulsion, so we may as well stick with him to at least the end of the season. The question is, if we do see some kind of improvement between now and the end of the season, do we give him a pre season and a run at the start, or get rid ASAP. One thing is certain, if things stay as they are, we would be overwhelming favourites for the drop next time round. On a more positive note, those who were worried when we sat 4th in the table, about just how we might cope should we get into the championship, need no longer have that concern. I would sack him today Rex.Its not as if there isn't anyone out there that couldn't do a better job. I feel let down by WAQ,not only because of his failure to build trsing ground and stadium,but because he couldn't keep Couglan and then hired Garner! I was a Coughlan fan.I enjoyed us bullying instead of being bullied.You could see the squad becoming confident.Believers.We became challengers on merit.We were that good. I completely disagreed with Gasheads who lacked the football nous to appreciate Couglans style.Their whining for 'the glorious passing game' soon became an irritant.Then having to hear them claim how great Garners style was.What a load of s**t! Couglans team actually passed the ball better. I can't see anything good about Rovers. Board rubbish. Manager rubbish. Fans(and WAQ,) that actually wanted to experiment with a ridiculous fantasy passing game,instead of a serious promotion challenge. What a load of rubbish. Yesterdays performance was truly pathetic.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 1, 2020 9:05:58 GMT
Basel: "I was a Coughlan fan.I enjoyed us bullying instead of being bullied.You could see the squad becoming confident.Believers.We became challengers on merit.We were that good."
Absolutely! And the first time in a while.
I like watching defensive formation and tactics, GC had us immediately defending higher up the pitch. Great start.
The injuries to Little, and subsequently, Hare (whom was a better replacement) made an enforced choice of back 5 which suited Craig, Alfie and Rollin, and helped bring out the best in Upson....a blend of youth and experience.
GC brought the best out of some average players. BG appears to have knocked all that down, and invoking the opposite.
And before anyone quotes or believes the "long term project" b s, can it be demonstrated when it's actually worked? When someone says long term, it's code for shut up, awkward answering of questions ... Because, if there was a long term project some sense of improvement, direction or planning would have been done after 17 matches.
Utter sh!te and I don't believe it.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Mar 1, 2020 9:10:00 GMT
Basel: "I was a Coughlan fan.I enjoyed us bullying instead of being bullied.You could see the squad becoming confident.Believers.We became challengers on merit.We were that good." Absolutely! And the first time in a while. I like watching defensive formation and tactics, GC had us immediately defending higher up the pitch. Great start. The injuries to Little, and subsequently, Hare (whom was a better replacement) made an enforced choice of back 5 which suited Craig, Alfie and Rollin, and helped bring out the best in Upson....a blend of youth and experience. GC brought the best out of some average players. BG appears to have knocked all that down, and invoking the opposite. And before anyone quotes or believes the "long term project" b s, can it be demonstrated when it's actually worked? When someone says long term, it's code for shut up, awkward answering of questions ... Because, if there was a long term project some sense of improvement, direction or planning would have been done after 17 matches. Utter sh!te and I don't believe it. Hear hear o2! This is my truth too! This season takes the biscuit. I mean it's been bizarre even by Rovers standards.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 1, 2020 9:33:44 GMT
I agree with Basel and o2, I was a big GC fan and thought he was exactly the right kind of manager at exactly the right time. Sadly though, that time has passed, GC has gone and pretty much all his hard work has been wasted (in two months!) so there is little point in wondering what could have been. When you look at it logically, the only thing that has changed in that time is the manager, so he has to carry the can for it, but as I said earlier, I can't really see much point in changing now. let him see the season out, and if we see some signs of improvement , think about it again then. When Coughlan left, I was pleasantly surprised how quickly the board acted, and to be fair it looked like it could have been an exciting appointment, it was certainly brave, so I'm going to give the board the benefit of the doubt on it, I actually think that (for once) they may have thought they were doing the right thing, but as thing stands it appears their old approach of looking around the training ground and asking if 'anyone fancies a go' would have been the better option.
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Post by mangogas15 on Mar 1, 2020 9:44:29 GMT
Really struggled with which thread to use for this.
There is so much opinion about our current run and inevitably most of it is negative towards BG.
I have to ask the fundamental question, how is this manager progressive?
I think the answer came to me after watching yesterday's game, he might be as a coach but we are not seeing it on the pitch, our players are not responding to him.
This is when you have to review the initial decision to appoint him.
He changed the style and formation of a winning team which in itself is criminal. This indicates to me that he has either been told or believes these games are all freebies because we were 4th.
He has been in charge for 16 games and we have won 1. I doubt even Lee Johnson would be given that time. Regardless of the circumstances of the unfortunate family illness, or the transfer players needing time to bed in, the results and crucially performances have not been good enough.
I walked away from the Blackpool game feeling that we were lucky to win, that's because we were.
I don't buy the fixture congestion excuse now as they have just completed 3 Saturday only weeks, no midweek match, plenty of time for a manager to get his point across.
He changed a winning team. The wingers were too lightweight yesterday, Daly looked ok when he came on, at least he tried.
JCH was horrendous, but had no service. The football was awful, the conditions FOR BOTH TEAMS meant we had to keep it on the floor, we kept trying to hit long high balls in the wind, ridiculous.
We didn't try to get in behind them, make their defenders work, created very few chances.
4 shots at home. 13 for ST, they weren't that good.
Stop blaming the ref, that performance yesterday was about how we bounced back from the Sunderland game and there was the answer.
Shrewsbury must have been laughing as their fans did with the chant 'You're so s***, we're winning away'.
I'm all for giving people a chance but there was NO excuse yesterday. Any injuries we have do not detract from the fect that that starting 11 was good enough to win that game. When I hear people talking about who to take off 20 minutes in it drives me mad, the 11 should take responsibility for winning the football match. Whoever was on the bench wasn't good enough to start this week so why would they do any better?
It's time for BG to go, he is not going to improve. Please quote this at me when he wins promotion next season with us with expansive free flowing exciting football. I was enjoying this season even with the so-called boring GC football, winning is not boring. 4-2 v Southend was brilliant. I always said be careful what you wish for. Now we have it.
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Rex
Predictions League
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Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 1, 2020 9:53:22 GMT
Really struggled with which thread to use for this. There is so much opinion about our current run and inevitably most of it is negative towards BG. I have to ask the fundamental question, how is this manager progressive? I think the answer came to me after watching yesterday's game, he might be as a coach but we are not seeing it on the pitch, our players are not responding to him. This is when you have to review the initial decision to appoint him. He changed the style and formation of a winning team which in itself is criminal. This indicates to me that he has either been told or believes these games are all freebies because we were 4th. He has been in charge for 16 games and we have won 1. I doubt even Lee Johnson would be given that time. Regardless of the circumstances of the unfortunate family illness, or the transfer players needing time to bed in, the results and crucially performances have not been good enough. I walked away from the Blackpool game feeling that we were lucky to win, that's because we were. I don't buy the fixture congestion excuse now as they have just completed 3 Saturday only weeks, no midweek match, plenty of time for a manager to get his point across. He changed a winning team. The wingers were too lightweight yesterday, Daly looked ok when he came on, at least he tried. JCH was horrendous, but had no service. The football was awful, the conditions FOR BOTH TEAMS meant we had to keep it on the floor, we kept trying to hit long high balls in the wind, ridiculous. We didn't try to get in behind them, make their defenders work, created very few chances. 4 shots at home. 13 for ST, they weren't that good. Stop blaming the ref, that performance yesterday was about how we bounced back from the Sunderland game and there was the answer. Shrewsbury must have been laughing as their fans did with the chant 'You're so s***, we're winning away'. I'm all for giving people a chance but there was NO excuse yesterday. Any injuries we have do not detract from the fect that that starting 11 was good enough to win that game. When I hear people talking about who to take off 20 minutes in it drives me mad, the 11 should take responsibility for winning the football match. Whoever was on the bench wasn't good enough to start this week so why would they do any better? It's time for BG to go, he is not going to improve. Please quote this at me when he wins promotion next season with us with expansive free flowing exciting football. I was enjoying this season even with the so-called boring GC football, winning is not boring. 4-2 v Southend was brilliant. I always said be careful what you wish for. Now we have it.
I was chatting with a pretty seasoned moaner yesterday ( who does know his football) and he was saying we have been poor, pretty much all season(which I don't agree with). The Southend game was mentioned , which admittedly was a truly abysmal first half, the crucial difference being that Coughlan was able to get the players to turn that game on it's head in the second half. I don't think Garner has that capability.
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Post by lostinspace on Mar 1, 2020 10:00:13 GMT
so WHO ultimately drove GC out? was it the supporters constant moaning , with gates stuttering downhill despite the league position --n or the style of football which the owners seemed not to like ? either it was a case of stick with devil you know or the grass is greener on the other side , the selected option failed , or is failing
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Post by fatherjackhackett on Mar 1, 2020 10:08:34 GMT
I think the biggest disappointment for me is the insistence on this good awful formation. 5-3-2 worked well with the players we have at the club , poor JCH spent his time on the pitch chasing lost causes as it was the only way he was going to see the ball.
Centre midfield is a total basket case. It really pains me to say this but surely Ollie Clarke’s days are soon up as a Rovers player. We need to start next season with a new midfield, for me only Sercombe should be kept on.
Until yesterday I was saying give BG 10 games into next season. Yesterday changed that. The one slim chance I would give him of remaining is if the club brings in an experienced DoF, as Trollope had in Lennie Lawrence. But it’s just one part of a club that is rotting in every department. From the boardroom to the terraces.
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Post by outwoodgas on Mar 1, 2020 10:32:50 GMT
Should we be surprised things have turned out as they have. A group of largely experienced pros haul us to an unlikely 4th in the table, only for the new manager to come in and say the style must change. He then brings in 7 younger players in the transfer window which gives the message that the old dogs are incapable of learning his new tricks. God knows what that has done for confidence and morale in the camp. I'd love to know what those who have been around the block like Tony Craig make of it all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 11:02:39 GMT
I think the biggest disappointment for me is the insistence on this good awful formation. 5-3-2 worked well with the players we have at the club Yep. Firstly, I much prefer a back four. 4-4-2 tending towards 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 tending towards 4-3-2-1, or 4-5-1 tending towards 4-1-4-1... I prefer them all to 5-3-2 tending towards 3-4-1-2, which to me is for Serie A, not English football. I have zero prejudice towards a back 3 or 5. Nor did I ever like Coughlan much! However, it worked for us. Our de facto captain in Craig (we need to recruit a midfield for which Clarke is merely reserve cover) might not have the height or pace to dominate all opposition forwards in a Rovers back four. But he was a magnificent leader and organiser in the middle of his two apprentices Kilgour and Menayese in games I saw under Coughlan. And our central midfield weaknesses could be covered by playing a deep two behind the more skilled Sercombe, who could have a bit of freedom behind two forwards. As much as 4-4-2 is loved by fans, we're not good enough to play with two wingers and two forwards. Plus the so-called full-backs are too weak for a back four. BG was a fool to abandon a pragmatic use of a system that suited the squad.
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Post by mangogas15 on Mar 1, 2020 11:16:16 GMT
Should we be surprised things have turned out as they have. A group of largely experienced pros haul us to an unlikely 4th in the table, only for the new manager to come in and say the style must change. He then brings in 7 younger players in the transfer window which gives the message that the old dogs are incapable of learning his new tricks. God knows what that has done for confidence and morale in the camp. I'd love to know what those who have been around the block like Tony Craig make of it all. TC is probably thinking I'll bide my time and be here after you've gone
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Post by mangogas15 on Mar 1, 2020 11:17:21 GMT
so WHO ultimately drove GC out? was it the supporters constant moaning , with gates stuttering downhill despite the league position --n or the style of football which the owners seemed not to like ? either it was a case of stick with devil you know or the grass is greener on the other side , the selected option failed , or is failing No one, i honestly think he couldn't live down here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 11:24:12 GMT
Not sure saying those of us who couldn't stand the football under Coughlan, lack football nous, is very helpful.
Different opinions, that's all.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 1, 2020 14:42:55 GMT
For anyone who likes football recent history, we are the new Birmingham City circa 3 years ago..
They had a good thing in going for play offs, but replaced him with a name....Zola.
Sometimes what's on paper doesn't quite fit the club. Action needs to be taken quickly before the infection spreads..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 15:31:09 GMT
I honestly can’t believe Garner is still in a job today.
Firstly, where are the clowns in charge of the ship? Sat on their hands as usual. Feckless and lightweight, the pair of them. A Q&A proposed over a month ago that still hasn’t been released. Presiding over a despicable run of results that has seen us drop like a stone. Where is the sign that they give a **** and have a plan to stop the falling crowds and general apathy? It beggars belief that Garner is still allowed to carry on when it’s blatantly obvious he will never be a manager as long as I have a hole in my arse.
As for Garner himself, surely anyone with an ounce of pride would realise that with a record of 1 solitary win from something like 18 games would concede he just has not got what it takes and resign. He blames the referee and the players but there seems very little introspection to his own role- if there was that would surely be reflected on the pitch with some flexibility in his approach rather than continually doing something that doesn’t work and blaming other factors for his failings? Have some f**king pride man and resign, those two clowns in the boardroom don’t have the stones to do it so force their hand for the good of the club. Surely he can’t believe he is going to magically turn it round and all he needs is a few more defeats to totally s**t sides and it will suddenly come good?
It’s so sad what is being allowed to happen to this club after the nothing short of epic work of DC and then the follow up by GC. The pair of them were quite forceful personalities and in hindsight seemed to be the glue keeping the place together in the absence of proper leadership from the top. We are going back where we came from and no-one at the club gives a toss.
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Post by swissgas on Mar 1, 2020 16:09:37 GMT
I honestly can’t believe Garner is still in a job today. Firstly, where are the clowns in charge of the ship? Sat on their hands as usual. Feckless and lightweight, the pair of them. A Q&A proposed over a month ago that still hasn’t been released. Presiding over a despicable run of results that has seen us drop like a stone. Where is the sign that they give a **** and have a plan to stop the falling crowds and general apathy? It beggars belief that Garner is still allowed to carry on when it’s blatantly obvious he will never be a manager as long as I have a hole in my arse. As for Garner himself, surely anyone with an ounce of pride would realise that with a record of 1 solitary win from something like 18 games would concede he just has not got what it takes and resign. He blames the referee and the players but there seems very little introspection to his own role- if there was that would surely be reflected on the pitch with some flexibility in his approach rather than continually doing something that doesn’t work and blaming other factors for his failings? Have some fing pride man and resign, those two clowns in the boardroom don’t have the stones to do it so force their hand for the good of the club. Surely he can’t believe he is going to magically turn it round and all he needs is a few more defeats to totally s*** sides and it will suddenly come good? It’s so sad what is being allowed to happen to this club after the nothing short of epic work of DC and then the follow up by GC. The pair of them were quite forceful personalities and in hindsight seemed to be the glue keeping the place together in the absence of proper leadership from the top. We are going back where we came from and no-one at the club gives a toss. While agreeing with a lot of what you say I don’t think the solution is quite so easy. Why should Ben Garner resign, he has a family to support and has already been out of work a lot in the past two years. And if Wael is willing to pay to fire him who will replace him, are we really sure one of the current coaching team would take the poisoned chalice or would they say no I’ll do what I’m paid to do now thanks ? The minute you take ownership of a business you are accepting huge responsibilities the most important of which is the wellbeing of your employees. But Wael has never owned a business or had employees before so he doesn’t understand this. And I don’t think Martyn Starnes really has his heart in the job so he is not going to step up and address the issue. We have many serious problems at the football club but the most pressing currently IMO is our responsibility towards Ben Garner. My proposal as posted last week would be to go back to the plan which should have been implemented on Ben’s arrival. Get the new training ground issue sorted quickly and make a big play of it. Bring in one or two specialist coaches of Ben’s choosing to help him. And now, bring in Steve Coppell or someone similar on a short term six figure contract ( value and length remaining undisclosed) to give direction. This will divert attention from Ben and the team, restore some degree of confidence within the fan base and buy time to see what transpires with ownership and other issues. But most importantly it will be doing something positive towards preserving Ben’s wellbeing.
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