LPGas
Stuart Taylor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,240
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Post by LPGas on Feb 6, 2020 15:39:38 GMT
You make it sound so easy (not a dig, just the bones of it). It’s an admirable dream but like you say it’s a big ask and it’s an even bigger ask of someone who is in his first managerial gig. Can’t help but think this is a PlayStation manager scenario where it all seems so easy on a video game or a whiteboard but in reality is bloody difficult. If it wasn’t bloody difficult I’m sure you would see more teams in the lower leagues packing their sides with kids and trying to play out from the back. Sadly given the physicality the hard currency in our division is big lads and experience. BG might find that he has tried to swim against a very strong current and been swept away by it. Other clubs do use this model to a greater or lesser degree. Coventry city have signed some very good young players and sold them for big fees later on while maintaining a high position on a modest budget for example. Also we still have experienced players at the club so it will not just be kids. I am not at all sure it will work but its worth a try as we know we cannot keep players on high wages like clarke-harris,bennett,craig and little are likely to be on. So sign cheap players? Yes that will guarantee us success. As for Doncaster and Coventry and Peterboro, they all sell their best players, they play tippy tappy football and they are still in this league
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Post by droitwichgas on Feb 6, 2020 18:15:57 GMT
Absolutely...but then you could perhaps argue that maybe Garner is backing Wael’s vision rather than the other way around. And also it’s easy for Wael to back Garner’s vision because it’s the cheapest business plan there is- if Garner had said “I want to spunk a load of money on player x, player y, and and player z” Wael may not have been so accommodating. Basically, we’re skint so what Wael wants more than anything is a manager who isn’t going to complain about the facilities and the fox s*** and who is happy to work with young players with no experience on a shoe string budget. Garner is that man on steroids. What will be interesting to see is whether Garner still doesn’t mind working under these conditions as time passes. GC thought we had facilities to rival Sheffield Wednesday or some bollocks ( ) however he soon changed his tune when we started winning games and his reputation grew. Will Garner be happy when we flog his star striker for 500k and force him to try and find another gem from someone’s youth team? It’s a really hard game unearthing young talent and the idea that even half of the players we have signed under Garner will turn out to be great signings is pretty fanciful, imo. Especially when you look at our recent history in the loan market which hasn’t been great. In theory garners experience at premier league clubs as an academy manager and first team coach should give him an edge in signing young players on permanent or loan for rovers. The 3 permanents are on two and a half year deals which means we can get a good fee if they do well and attract interest. The seven new players are here now so garner will be running out of excuses if results do not improve. If this project works it will be fantastic for everyone. That theory is something he probably sold to Wael, but signing the players then turning them into L1 players we can sell for £1m+ can't be any easy task, particularly when he has no experience of either playing or coaching at this level. If it's that easy to sell players once they excel at this level how come Wycombe didn't manage to sell one single player and Posh managed to lose Maddison on a free
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 6, 2020 21:21:39 GMT
In theory garners experience at premier league clubs as an academy manager and first team coach should give him an edge in signing young players on permanent or loan for rovers. The 3 permanents are on two and a half year deals which means we can get a good fee if they do well and attract interest. The seven new players are here now so garner will be running out of excuses if results do not improve. If this project works it will be fantastic for everyone. That theory is something he probably sold to Wael, but signing the players then turning them into L1 players we can sell for £1m+ can't be any easy task, particularly when he has no experience of either playing or coaching at this level. If it's that easy to sell players once they excel at this level how come Wycombe didn't manage to sell one single player and Posh managed to lose Maddison on a free Serious question, did Posh lose Marcus Maddison on a free? I thought it was a loan to Hull. After all the fanfare about how good Posh are at transfers and getting the best deals and “never being screwed “ like Rovers are meant to be, if true, I find that comfortingly laughable. By the way, I agree with your point about it being hard to turn youngsters into £1m players. But it would be good to think that we now have a manager with a plan. UTG!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 22:13:02 GMT
more from the Post... So that’s seven new signings through the door this window ... - Jayden Mitchell-Lawson AM (loan, Derby) - Josh Barrett AM (permanent, Reading) - Josh Ginnelly AM (loan, Preston) - Timmy Abraham CF (loan, Fulham) - Jamal Blackman GK (loan, Chelsea) - Cian Harries CB (permanent, Swansea) - James Daly CF (permanent, Crystal Palace) 18:19 what's not to like? Apart from the Goalie none of the others have played in the league Both ginnelly and barrett have played league football. You really need to improve your research before you post.
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Post by droitwichgas on Feb 6, 2020 22:13:21 GMT
That theory is something he probably sold to Wael, but signing the players then turning them into L1 players we can sell for £1m+ can't be any easy task, particularly when he has no experience of either playing or coaching at this level. If it's that easy to sell players once they excel at this level how come Wycombe didn't manage to sell one single player and Posh managed to lose Maddison on a free Serious question, did Posh lose Marcus Maddison on a free? I thought it was a loan to Hull. After all the fanfare about how good Posh are at transfers and getting the best deals and “never being screwed “ like Rovers are meant to be, if true, I find that comfortingly laughable. By the way, I agree with your point about it being hard to turn youngsters into £1m players. But it would be good to think that we now have a manager with a plan. UTG! Seems they manage to get a 6 figure sum, which I assume is far less than they hoped to get.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,390
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 6, 2020 22:19:59 GMT
Serious question, did Posh lose Marcus Maddison on a free? I thought it was a loan to Hull. After all the fanfare about how good Posh are at transfers and getting the best deals and “never being screwed “ like Rovers are meant to be, if true, I find that comfortingly laughable. By the way, I agree with your point about it being hard to turn youngsters into £1m players. But it would be good to think that we now have a manager with a plan. UTG! Seems they manage to get a 6 figure sum, which I assume is far less than they hoped to get. I think Maddison was on the list at £6m. At least that was what Mcdarragh, the Chairman, was talking about in the Summer. I think he got carried away after getting a good price for Jack Marriott when he went to Derby. Sounds like a lot less. Ha. UTG!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 22:20:41 GMT
Other clubs do use this model to a greater or lesser degree. Coventry city have signed some very good young players and sold them for big fees later on while maintaining a high position on a modest budget for example. Also we still have experienced players at the club so it will not just be kids. I am not at all sure it will work but its worth a try as we know we cannot keep players on high wages like clarke-harris,bennett,craig and little are likely to be on. So sign cheap players? Yes that will guarantee us success. As for Doncaster and Coventry and Peterboro, they all sell their best players, they play tippy tappy football and they are still in this league By "tippy tappy" do you mean passing the ball to your own players and making lots of forward runs like doncaster,coventry and peterborough as well as all the teams promoted into the championship in recent seasons like barnsley,sheff utd,wigan and luton ? Is that what you meant?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 22:23:09 GMT
In theory garners experience at premier league clubs as an academy manager and first team coach should give him an edge in signing young players on permanent or loan for rovers. The 3 permanents are on two and a half year deals which means we can get a good fee if they do well and attract interest. The seven new players are here now so garner will be running out of excuses if results do not improve. If this project works it will be fantastic for everyone. I guess you meant the "sustainable " project where we develop young players and sell them on. W e have been doing that for 60 years, and because of selling our best players we remain stuck in Div 1 (or 3 as it used to be) Every club except about 5 in the world sell their best players.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 22:32:55 GMT
In theory garners experience at premier league clubs as an academy manager and first team coach should give him an edge in signing young players on permanent or loan for rovers. The 3 permanents are on two and a half year deals which means we can get a good fee if they do well and attract interest. The seven new players are here now so garner will be running out of excuses if results do not improve. If this project works it will be fantastic for everyone. That theory is something he probably sold to Wael, but signing the players then turning them into L1 players we can sell for £1m+ can't be any easy task, particularly when he has no experience of either playing or coaching at this level. If it's that easy to sell players once they excel at this level how come Wycombe didn't manage to sell one single player and Posh managed to lose Maddison on a free Luton and barnsley sold their best players at the end of last season and you can be sure that this years promoted teams will get their best players cherry picked if they are young. Im not certain but i believe wycombe are mostly senior players? Is it easy? No,most likely this whole thing will be a bloody disaster but the club are in deep now with the new signings so i just feel the only option for a fan is to back the vision. Like i said if garner does pull it off it would be great,i mean a young side playing good football is a nice dream.
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irishrover
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Joined: June 2014
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Post by irishrover on Feb 7, 2020 14:58:18 GMT
That theory is something he probably sold to Wael, but signing the players then turning them into L1 players we can sell for £1m+ can't be any easy task, particularly when he has no experience of either playing or coaching at this level. If it's that easy to sell players once they excel at this level how come Wycombe didn't manage to sell one single player and Posh managed to lose Maddison on a free Luton and barnsley sold their best players at the end of last season and you can be sure that this years promoted teams will get their best players cherry picked if they are young. Im not certain but i believe wycombe are mostly senior players? Is it easy? No,most likely this whole thing will be a bloody disaster but the club are in deep now with the new signings so i just feel the only option for a fan is to back the vision. Like i said if garner does pull it off it would be great,i mean a young side playing good football is a nice dream. What we're doing is very strange when inheriting a team that is 4th in the league though. Clearly this was the plan all along but I tried explaining what we were doing to a Rotherham fan who wondered what had happened to us since Christmas and he said 'has everyone down there been on the out of date scrumpy?'
This is the kind of thing you do if everything's gone down the pan as a desperate roll of the dice or you do it in the offseason as a change of direction or club culture. But I'm really struggling to think of a single team that was having a decent season and clearly overachieving deciding to rip it all up halfway through for no obvious reason. Must be very demoralising for the players who put us in that position and I think as fans we're entitled to feel a bit short changed to say the least. BG talks as if he inherited a team destined for relegation that he's shaping for the next season - I don't think it's his fault because clearly those are the terms on which he was appointed but it does show a certain amount of contempt for the fans. To be clear my issue is not really with Garner - it's whoever set this strategy in motion behind the scenes.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 16:14:47 GMT
The whole garner project does come across as a idealistic wael dream,it fits in with the cat 2 academy/training ground talk. If garner pulls this off and we finish up with a young side playing progressive,pressing attacking football next season everyone will be happy and the playing side of the club will be in a better place.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Feb 7, 2020 16:34:38 GMT
The whole garner project does come across as a idealistic wael dream,it fits in with the cat 2 academy/training ground talk. If garner pulls this off and we finish up with a young side playing progressive,pressing attacking football next season everyone will be happy and the playing side of the club will be in a better place. That may be true - and I'm not necessarily against the idea of trying something different rather than doing the same thing not quite as well as everybody else. The potential rewards are there.
But the risks are massive and BG will need a very thick skin to pull this off because I can't really blame any fan whose pissed off at him at this stage.
I'm also worried that he will sign a squad of highly skilled diddy men who will get constantly bullied off the ball. The way he has set up sides in the games I've seen so far have suggested to me that he has yet to grasp that at this level you need to earn the space for your skilled players to work in by having some physical presence that can win them the ball in promising positions. I would imagine that is less the case at the levels he's coached before.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 17:44:46 GMT
what mr garner needs right now is a win or two to give him a bit of breathing space and get some confidence back in the players. Then he can get on with the project.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 18:05:23 GMT
Climbing the table and crowds were falling strange but true. Mainly down to such desperate unwatchable football. That is unsustainable as a club trying to move forward. Is garner the answer time will tell. The team was broke according to the thousands of stay away supporters. Something needed to be done.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 7, 2020 18:25:34 GMT
what mr garner needs right now is a win or two to give him a bit of breathing space and get some confidence back in the players. Then he can get on with the project. We all do. 😉 But you are correct, a win (or two) would make a huge difference. UTG!
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
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Post by Peter Parker on Feb 8, 2020 8:42:39 GMT
Seems they manage to get a 6 figure sum, which I assume is far less than they hoped to get. I think Maddison was on the list at £6m. At least that was what Mcdarragh, the Chairman, was talking about in the Summer. I think he got carried away after getting a good price for Jack Marriott when he went to Derby. Sounds like a lot less. Ha. UTG! Maddison is on a free in summer. Dont know if Hull have paid a loan fee or anything
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,053
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 8, 2020 9:08:44 GMT
The whole garner project does come across as a idealistic wael dream,it fits in with the cat 2 academy/training ground talk. If garner pulls this off and we finish up with a young side playing progressive,pressing attacking football next season everyone will be happy and the playing side of the club will be in a better place. That may be true - and I'm not necessarily against the idea of trying something different rather than doing the same thing not quite as well as everybody else. The potential rewards are there.
But the risks are massive and BG will need a very thick skin to pull this off because I can't really blame any fan whose pissed off at him at this stage.
I'm also worried that he will sign a squad of highly skilled diddy men who will get constantly bullied off the ball. The way he has set up sides in the games I've seen so far have suggested to me that he has yet to grasp that at this level you need to earn the space for your skilled players to work in by having some physical presence that can win them the ball in promising positions. I would imagine that is less the case at the levels he's coached before.
This is exactly my concern. You have to win the mid-field battle and from what I've seen we will struggle against physicality. A good indicator will be today against the perennial cheats at wycombe.
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,240
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Post by LPGas on Feb 9, 2020 15:45:18 GMT
what mr garner needs right now is a win or two to give him a bit of breathing space and get some confidence back in the players. Then he can get on with the project. Well he has had 12 goes, and like DC repeats himself after everyone of them
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Feb 9, 2020 17:12:07 GMT
Then he can get on with the project. Haha! Hahahaha!!! Where have we heard that before?! 🤔
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Post by The Concept on Aug 18, 2021 18:05:43 GMT
Thought Cian Harries did okay when he came on last night, but not so last Saturday.
Has he been injured? Is he still coming back to full fitness?
For the second goal he made no attempt to get back to challenge, just jogged back up the pitch. In fact he had at least 10 yards on the player who broke from defence, and you'll see he actually hesitates and stops, before deciding to jog.
This effectively gave them a 3 on 2, making life difficult for the other 2 defenders, trying to decide who they had to mark.
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