Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 18:47:00 GMT
If nobody is prepared to put their head above the parapet, and in real life rather than an internet handle or social media account, then nothing will ever happen. It’s that feckin simple. It needs someone or a small group to contact local media (press, radio, tv) and issue a press release with a named contact. Most outlets are desperate for news. It took me 36 hours from Dennis Rofe leaving to being interviewed at work by Roger Malone. Without internet or mobile phones. If you want something to happen then get passionate, get motivated and get active. If not than STFU and stop destabilising the club. “We are not the official rescue party per se, Brian” Destabilising the club? Seriously? We are shafted as things stand, unless of course these owners have a change of heart with regard to their funding model, but the charge on the stadium kind of gives a clue about the likelihood of that. The rest of what you say, I totally agree, what we need right now is a John Malyckyj or Kim Stucky to step forward and give some direction to supporters. Both good blokes. But neither really wanted to do that when the opportunity arose, during their involvement.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 18:51:45 GMT
Destabilising the club? Seriously? We are shafted as things stand, unless of course these owners have a change of heart with regard to their funding model, but the charge on the stadium kind of gives a clue about the likelihood of that. The rest of what you say, I totally agree, what we need right now is a John Malyckyj or Kim Stucky to step forward and give some direction to supporters. Not necessarily them. I would be happy with anyone to step forward. But no one is prepared to, so everyone loses. I think we are saying the same thing. Kim and John I think have both done their time, and people of that calibre are few and far between, but they are out there. I thought that young guy who did the recorded interview with Masters and Hamer a while back was outstanding, just as an example. The problem is, what's being asked here is that somebody does a full time job, for free.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 19, 2020 19:47:24 GMT
I'm testing the logic all the time. In my own way. I understand your frustrations. I think we all do and that's not patronising, we all want more. Who wouldn't? I've popped this in other places, but where we are now is probably where our historical average is....top two thirds of division 3 football. For the record, when I started watching Rovers we were in 2nd Division, but the last 20 years have spent vast majority under where we are now. We are mid table, 3rd division club with asperations of more.... there's 25-odd clubs at least that feel the same.... what's special is it means something to me. And you. Don't give up on your faith and trueness..... I'm guessing you might have sung about that once or twice? It is the question. Support. Not blindly, but support. The club needs you. 2 things in reply to that. 1. Debt has never been this high, and it's secured against the stadium, that's got to worry even the maddest rose tinter, surely? 2. Faith is the excuse that people use for believing stuff that they don't have evidence for. There is literally nothing that I can't say to you that I believe and choose to do so on faith. It's utter nonsense and has no place in conversation with anybody who is either sober or above about 7 years of age. 2 things in reply to that: 1) I never mentioned debt. You did. 2) Faith as in: faithful and true, we always follow the boys in blue (and white).. I've sang it. Have you, ever? I mean it. Have you, ever?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 22:19:40 GMT
2 things in reply to that. 1. Debt has never been this high, and it's secured against the stadium, that's got to worry even the maddest rose tinter, surely? 2. Faith is the excuse that people use for believing stuff that they don't have evidence for. There is literally nothing that I can't say to you that I believe and choose to do so on faith. It's utter nonsense and has no place in conversation with anybody who is either sober or above about 7 years of age. 2 things in reply to that: 1) I never mentioned debt. You did. 2) Faith as in: faithful and true, we always follow the boys in blue (and white).. I've sang it. Have you, ever? I mean it. Have you, ever? 1. Was in reply to your 'aspirations', they won't be met with the present funding model. 2. No, well, maybe. Was that a chant at Eastville before around 1970? After that I've always had in interest in the madness of crowds, but don't get involved, it's learned social behaviour and just feels unnatural. Lots of people don't get involved, and the ridiculous faux hysteria now when a team score, don't even get me started on that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 22:24:32 GMT
Bambi can't sing is all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 22:35:20 GMT
I'll have you know, driving down the motorway in my Hillman Imp with my Sounds of the '70s 8 track playing, the louder I turn it up, the better my singing voice gets.
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Igitur
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Post by Igitur on Jan 19, 2020 22:37:45 GMT
Yes, perhaps. But a poor comparison. Two very wealthy clubs with a brand to protect may indeed feel such "power of social media" We have no such brand. The comparison is Bury and Stockport. Social Media will have zero impact in those circumstances. Don't agree. It's all relative. If I understand Swiss correctly, he's talking about how to organise / galvanise a supporters' voice. A few people meeting in a tent behind a pub won't do it. 10 people shouting as they walk from the Civil Service Club won't do it. People wearing Black & Gold scarves fighting on the north terrace won't do it. Social media is how people communicate now. I know that you and I are still getting to grips with telegrams and semaphore, but there's even a website for luddites now. This battle is lost. 3 hours ago Bamber Gasgroin said:
fatherjackhackett Avatar
3 hours ago fatherjackhackett said:
If nobody is prepared to put their head above the parapet, and in real life rather than an internet handle or social media account, then nothing will ever happen. It’s that feckin simple.
It needs someone or a small group to contact local media (press, radio, tv) and issue a press release with a named contact. Most outlets are desperate for news. It took me 36 hours from Dennis Rofe leaving to being interviewed at work by Roger Malone. Without internet or mobile phones.
The rest of what you say, I totally agree, what we need right now is a John Malyckyj or Kim Stucky to step forward and give some direction to supporters.
Not necessarily them. I would be happy with anyone to step forward. But no one is prepared to, so everyone loses.
I will defend the meetings behind the Welly as they were an attempt to launch some kind of action and contacting the press was discussed, but you are right no one stepped up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 22:47:16 GMT
Don't agree. It's all relative. If I understand Swiss correctly, he's talking about how to organise / galvanise a supporters' voice. A few people meeting in a tent behind a pub won't do it. 10 people shouting as they walk from the Civil Service Club won't do it. People wearing Black & Gold scarves fighting on the north terrace won't do it. Social media is how people communicate now. I know that you and I are still getting to grips with telegrams and semaphore, but there's even a website for luddites now. This battle is lost. 3 hours ago Bamber Gasgroin said:
fatherjackhackett Avatar
3 hours ago fatherjackhackett said:
If nobody is prepared to put their head above the parapet, and in real life rather than an internet handle or social media account, then nothing will ever happen. It’s that feckin simple.
It needs someone or a small group to contact local media (press, radio, tv) and issue a press release with a named contact. Most outlets are desperate for news. It took me 36 hours from Dennis Rofe leaving to being interviewed at work by Roger Malone. Without internet or mobile phones.
The rest of what you say, I totally agree, what we need right now is a John Malyckyj or Kim Stucky to step forward and give some direction to supporters.
Not necessarily them. I would be happy with anyone to step forward. But no one is prepared to, so everyone loses.
I will defend the meetings behind the Welly as they were an attempt to launch some kind of action and contacting the press was discussed, but you are right no one stepped up. Absolutely. I was there, filled to the rafters with good people, both at the top table and on the floor. Also a couple of snivelling sh1tweasles sent by the club to spy, but that's another story. And anyway, the fact that the club sent spies kind of proves that you are right to say that it was aimed in the right direction, but it was just cobbled together too quickly and was more of a reaction than a planned movement. If it makes you feel better, there was at least 1 wealthy person on the floor, assessing what was happening, just looking to see if there was something starting to seed there that he could support. As often happens on forums, it looks like people disagree when in fact, if I'm understanding you correctly, we are on the same side here.
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Post by swissgas on Jan 20, 2020 1:00:32 GMT
I am not disagreeing with the power of social media. But the power is only as strong as the susceptibilty of its target. Are the current shareholders susceptible? To the degree they just realise the asset and walk away, under pressure, yes I guess so. Is that a win? Ask Swiss what the end game is, all I've done is identify the tool to get you there. I think we can take it that Dwane Sports will realise their asset and walk away which will be the end game for them but not for us. It is what happens next which we should be preparing for now. A small group of people, with the commitment which you two, John M, Kim, philton and many others have shown in the past, could at least provide a catalyst to make sure the new owners, whoever they are, understand that fans will hold them account and demand they strive for the highest standards in everything they do. I do think good owners will understand and appreciate that and be prepared to work with it. In the past, as I see it, when organized support was strong and had something serious to say it was the owners insecurity which caused the tragic breakdown. In the present, it seems, the owners have been very content with a weak ineffectual organized support group and at the first sign of that changing they have panicked and another breakdown has occurred. A change in ownership means the chance of a fresh start and it would be a shame to waste it but, as is clear, it needs people of the right caliber involved in order for the owners to take it seriously. Probably I should leave it there but I had better clarify what I mean with examples. When Nick Higgs was interviewed on air by the Middle East business publication because he was supposedly seeking investment I remember vividly the horror of listening to it. At one point he was asked how much he needed and his response was “well they can put in whatever they like really”. There have been so many TV shows about budding entrepreneurs pitching business ideas for venture capital that I should think a lot of people, even those with zero business experience, would understand what a poor response that was. Nick may not have had much idea how to go about seeking investment so he should have prepared himself, done his homework and been ready with a credible response. Instead, because he surrounded himself with yes men and people who mistook meek conformance for loyalty, he was never challenged and therefore continued to make blunders until he finally realized he needed help and Colin Sexstone was drafted in to find an exit route. Having strong, skilled and experienced people around him could have actually enabled him to get the Middle East investment which may have meant he didn’t ever need that exit route. And the same thing has happened with Wael. It is fairly obvious that Michael Cunnah and Lee Atkins soon realized that Wael had not done his homework, did not have a properly formulated and costed plan and was more interested in self publicity than serious business. They may well have diplomatically pointed this out to him and suggested what was needed but if they did we can tell from their early departure what the response was. We have seen ourselves how ill prepared Wael is for interviews and what little emphasis he places on earning his credibility and our respect. As with Nick he expects those who care for Rovers to simply go along with him without challenging him about his weaknesses and failings which are consequently never addressed. With hindsight, if he did it again, I am sure Hani would ensure Wael was surrounded by strong, experienced and responsible people whom he could not dismiss easily because if he had been we may not be in this mess now. I fully understand that “someone has to step up and actually do it” but Bamber has the right idea with a high profile highly professional social media presence. Whatever I could do from a distance I certainly would. If nothing else it is worth discussing whether there is someone out there who could achieve, at our level, what the Arsenal man has and if so how he or she can be located and what would be needed to get the idea off the Ground.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 10:38:52 GMT
Ask Swiss what the end game is, all I've done is identify the tool to get you there. I think we can take it that Dwane Sports will realise their asset and walk away which will be the end game for them but not for us. It is what happens next which we should be preparing for now. A small group of people, with the commitment which you two, John M, Kim, philton and many others have shown in the past, could at least provide a catalyst to make sure the new owners, whoever they are, understand that fans will hold them account and demand they strive for the highest standards in everything they do. I do think good owners will understand and appreciate that and be prepared to work with it. In the past, as I see it, when organized support was strong and had something serious to say it was the owners insecurity which caused the tragic breakdown. In the present, it seems, the owners have been very content with a weak ineffectual organized support group and at the first sign of that changing they have panicked and another breakdown has occurred. A change in ownership means the chance of a fresh start and it would be a shame to waste it but, as is clear, it needs people of the right caliber involved in order for the owners to take it seriously. Probably I should leave it there but I had better clarify what I mean with examples. When Nick Higgs was interviewed on air by the Middle East business publication because he was supposedly seeking investment I remember vividly the horror of listening to it. At one point he was asked how much he needed and his response was “well they can put in whatever they like really”. There have been so many TV shows about budding entrepreneurs pitching business ideas for venture capital that I should think a lot of people, even those with zero business experience, would understand what a poor response that was. Nick may not have had much idea how to go about seeking investment so he should have prepared himself, done his homework and been ready with a credible response. Instead, because he surrounded himself with yes men and people who mistook meek conformance for loyalty, he was never challenged and therefore continued to make blunders until he finally realized he needed help and Colin Sexstone was drafted in to find an exit route. Having strong, skilled and experienced people around him could have actually enabled him to get the Middle East investment which may have meant he didn’t ever need that exit route. And the same thing has happened with Wael. It is fairly obvious that Michael Cunnah and Lee Atkins soon realized that Wael had not done his homework, did not have a properly formulated and costed plan and was more interested in self publicity than serious business. They may well have diplomatically pointed this out to him and suggested what was needed but if they did we can tell from their early departure what the response was. We have seen ourselves how ill prepared Wael is for interviews and what little emphasis he places on earning his credibility and our respect. As with Nick he expects those who care for Rovers to simply go along with him without challenging him about his weaknesses and failings which are consequently never addressed. With hindsight, if he did it again, I am sure Hani would ensure Wael was surrounded by strong, experienced and responsible people whom he could not dismiss easily because if he had been we may not be in this mess now. I fully understand that “someone has to step up and actually do it” but Bamber has the right idea with a high profile highly professional social media presence. Whatever I could do from a distance I certainly would. If nothing else it is worth discussing whether there is someone out there who could achieve, at our level, what the Arsenal man has and if so how he or she can be located and what would be needed to get the idea off the Ground. Have you employed Irish as your script writer? You've moved a step on from what I thought we were discussing. I thought we were still at the stage of trying to find a way of challenging these owners not to leave a bankrupt club behind. Or selling the stadium and having undeliverable plans for a new ground which they hand over to new owners, then when it all goes tits up pretending that it's nothing to do with them.
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Post by stroudblue on Jan 20, 2020 10:41:36 GMT
Not finished but for the moment heading into yet another recess. Nothing changes.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jan 20, 2020 12:31:39 GMT
So please let me get this right...
Someone be the saviour, but not...
John, Kim (who doesn't go to games anymore), Swiss (abroad), BG (not a big enough social media star).
Who would want to put their head above the parapet with such toxicity within the Club and within the fan-base?
Why is no-one asking about the existence / validity of the so-called clause that prevents us selling the Mem until we have a home in Bristol?
Why is the fan-base not enlisting the help of BCC to make sure we do not get sold down the river? Isn't that what the SC should be focused on, rather than Ken Masters?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 13:13:57 GMT
So please let me get this right... Someone be the saviour, but not... John, Kim (who doesn't go to games anymore), Swiss (abroad), BG (not a big enough social media star). Who would want to put their head above the parapet with such toxicity within the Club and within the fan-base? Why is no-one asking about the existence / validity of the so-called clause that prevents us selling the Mem until we have a home in Bristol? Why is the fan-base not enlisting the help of BCC to make sure we do not get sold down the river? Isn't that what the SC should be focused on, rather than Ken Masters? Here's the thing for me Vaughan, just to be clear. Bamber's behaviour over literally years on here would catch up with him double quick time if he ever tried to hold a formal position, but he's more than happy to work in the background. The SC are not fit for purpose, you know that, there's no reasoning with the people left there now. See my previous post for thoughts on what will happen; the club will be handed over to new owners with a plan for a new ground, but whether it will be deliverable is something entirely different. We appear to be in deep trouble. Stage 1 of attempting to mitigate the problem is to publicly confront our owners with the issues we think that we face.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jan 20, 2020 13:17:00 GMT
So please let me get this right... Someone be the saviour, but not... John, Kim (who doesn't go to games anymore), Swiss (abroad), BG (not a big enough social media star). Who would want to put their head above the parapet with such toxicity within the Club and within the fan-base? Why is no-one asking about the existence / validity of the so-called clause that prevents us selling the Mem until we have a home in Bristol? Why is the fan-base not enlisting the help of BCC to make sure we do not get sold down the river? Isn't that what the SC should be focused on, rather than Ken Masters? Here's the thing for me Vaughan, just to be clear. Bamber's behaviour over literally years on here would catch up with him double quick time if he ever tried to hold a formal position, but he's more than happy to work in the background. The SC are not fit for purpose, you know that, there's no reasoning with the people left there now. See my previous post for thoughts on what will happen; the club will be handed over to new owners with a plan for a new ground, but whether it will be deliverable is something entirely different. We appear to be in deep trouble. Stage 1 of attempting to mitigate the problem is to publicly confront our owners with the issues we think that we face. Go on then.
I am sure you can get someone to film a video of you asking these questions (or do it yourself) and email it everywhere
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 13:25:49 GMT
Here's the thing for me Vaughan, just to be clear. Bamber's behaviour over literally years on here would catch up with him double quick time if he ever tried to hold a formal position, but he's more than happy to work in the background. The SC are not fit for purpose, you know that, there's no reasoning with the people left there now. See my previous post for thoughts on what will happen; the club will be handed over to new owners with a plan for a new ground, but whether it will be deliverable is something entirely different. We appear to be in deep trouble. Stage 1 of attempting to mitigate the problem is to publicly confront our owners with the issues we think that we face. Go on then.
I am sure you can get someone to film a video of you asking these questions (or do it yourself) and email it everywhere
Read the entire post. Idiot.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jan 20, 2020 13:39:16 GMT
My serious suggestion is for SC to appoint a Director who will hold the FC to account. One that communicates with press and fans.
Not Ken Masters.
I am no great fan of SC but this is probably the right conduit for protest, based on history.
The SC have effectively divorced themselves from the FC with legal proceedings. So this gives them an opportunity to become more independent and therefore more forthright.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 13:47:54 GMT
My serious suggestion is for SC to appoint a Director who will hold the FC to account. One that communicates with press and fans. Not Ken Masters. I am no great fan of SC but this is probably the right conduit for protest, based on history. The SC have effectively divorced themselves from the FC with legal proceedings. So this gives them an opportunity to become more independent and therefore more forthright. Cast your mind back to the process Vaughan, any appointment has to be ratified by the FC. But you may be correct, it would be horrible PR for the FC to reject a candidate with no good reason, and that would give the individual a nice platform. I'll wager though that the present SC would rally against any such candidate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 14:42:39 GMT
My serious suggestion is for SC to appoint a Director who will hold the FC to account. One that communicates with press and fans. Not Ken Masters. I am no great fan of SC but this is probably the right conduit for protest, based on history. The SC have effectively divorced themselves from the FC with legal proceedings. So this gives them an opportunity to become more independent and therefore more forthright. But you may be correct, it would be horrible PR for the FC to reject a candidate with no good reason, and that would give the individual a nice platform. That in effect is what they have done with Ken but in this instance the majority agree with the action.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jan 20, 2020 16:37:18 GMT
If I was SC, time to front up. They are not allowed to attend Board Meetings, so just allow Ken to speak his mind or allow SC to elect someone else.
The role of SC is dead with DS. But to have title of SC Director would have more kudos than belonging to any other organisation.
Man up Jim. Are you really interested in representing the fan-base?
I have no faith though in our fan-base to carry any fight, whoever was appointed.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 20, 2020 17:24:42 GMT
Interesting discussion.
It's often repeated from many different perspectives that Rovers fans are particularly 'apathetic' or 'disengaged' or 'disinterested'? Is this really true or is it just about context?
The examples most people cite of fans getting off their backsides to do something tend to have only happened after clubs have bottomed-out or perceived to have done so. Exeter, Portsmouth, AFC Wimbledon (maybe even FC United) are all good stories of a fan base being galvanised but in all cases it was a reaction to some kind of specific crisis/collapse. There are other less famous (and often less successful examples) of fan movements forming in similar moments such as Brighton, Notts County and Luton Town. So perhaps we are not that unusual and maybe it's only the real prospect of imminent disaster that creates the incentives for mass involvement. I can't think of an example of any kind of fan movement that evolved from a position of relative strength. I'd suggest fans are reactionary by nature not proactive and it might be unrealistic to expect anything else but that's not the same thing as being apathetic.
After all when we did face the existential crisis of being chucked out of Eastville the fanbase clearly did step up massively. I appreciate that people who contributed significant time and effort to reform the club over the years have very good reasons to feel jaded that not enough were prepared to follow them up the mountain but I'm not sure that neccesarily means there's anything uniquely apathetic about Rovers fans.
Point of order by the way - Stockport was cited somewhere above as an example of what could happen to us. Well, should the worst predictions in this thread come true then we could probably do a lot worse than 'doing a Stockport'. Fans kept the club alive, crucially found a way to keep the ground, they finally turned the corner last year and have just sold controlling interest to a local millionaire with intentions to return them to a solid league football basis. They could well go zipping passed us.....
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