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Post by a more piratey game on Nov 19, 2019 0:23:48 GMT
]3) Say to yourself, we shelled out 7 million to own this, it's cost us 10 million since and it's only going to get worse, but we are in a strong position because the land is in demand and could be worth considerably more than 20 million, the Council don't want BRFC to fail and so if we play it right we can extract some profit to make up for the drop in the value of our other investments, show our business associates (whom we rely on) that we were quite astute in acquiring this land and still cobble together a scheme to give a wayward family member a miniature version of what he always wanted. [/quote]
This sounds to me like we get a nice new Fruit Bowl to play in, but we don't own it, or the revenues from the site, and maybe even pay rent, while WAQ gets to be Mr Prez of a club surviving from gate receipts
So would be a step down, not up, though probably we'd rent 'an even more beautiful piece of land'?
It's not what knowall was thinking of when he said most of us would be happy, a year ago, though
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Post by a more piratey game on Nov 19, 2019 0:30:28 GMT
It would surely be best to groundshare with Bristol Sport. Football, rugby and concerts what is not to like ? While we develop the Fruit Bowl as our spanking new all seater stadium. All possible now that the previous owners are out of the way but only one person could negotiate such a deal with Steve Lansdown on BRFC's behalf. I think the wheels might have come off with the fruit market plan. That must be very recent unless Marvin didn't know?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 0:42:40 GMT
All possible now that the previous owners are out of the way but only one person could negotiate such a deal with Steve Lansdown on BRFC's behalf. I think the wheels might have come off with the fruit market plan. That must be very recent unless Marvin didn't know? I think Marvin knows exactly what is or isn't going on as do the press with their loaded questions.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 19, 2019 0:53:38 GMT
Might not be a Fruit Bowl more likely a Soup Bowl.
And yes, we will be right in it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 1:41:12 GMT
Maybe you could clarify? So far despite considerable losses since they have been owners they are smiling because it has not affected them yet. When will it impact on them? febuary? april? july? 2021? It will impact them the moment their loans exceed the assets. I doubt very much they are smiling about it though. But its "no lose" for them,you told me that so why would they not smile?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 2:05:20 GMT
"it could be" that sums up several posters who articulate their genuine concerns about the owners. Those posters presume the worse regarding the owners but without any evidence to back up their claims. I will just wait and see what happens,maybe we will get clues during the transfer window and in 2020 as to what will happen. But what "could happen" simply depends on a positive or negative outlook and nothing else. The perception of a positive or negative outlook is something which genuinely intrigues me. Is it really taking a positive outlook to witness the club fail financially, as evidenced by the accounts, and yet say or do nothing on the basis that “it might not happen”. If you saw your family threatened in some way would you sit back and hope for the best or would you try to do something about it ? Turning a blind eye to the danger signals we all should see and saying “what will be will be”, when you could try to do something about it, is IMO taking a very negative outlook. I think highlighting the issues, encouraging debate on the possible scenarios and suggesting potential ways of improving Rovers prospects, in other words being optimistic that there is a solution and doing something to try and find it, is taking a very positive outlook. I agree it is good to have the debate. See i am a darrell clarke fan,loved his era,loved the great attacking football we played under him and totally agreed with him when he attacked the owners for not delivering what they promised him and us fans. But i do not know if they are the demons you and others believe they are. They have done much more than good old gashead higgs ever done for the club in my view so i see no reason to presume they will harm or destroy the football club. However crappy the tents are,fans and families still enjoy the game in them,the pitch is better than any rovers pitch i have ever seen anywhere,we have a reasonable league one budget which i simply do not believe higgs would have provided so its not all bad. We will just have to see what occurs.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 19, 2019 10:36:39 GMT
When Flook and Bradshaw passed ownership to the Dunfords they cut their losses and did what they thought was best for Rovers. When Geoff Dunford passed ownership to Nick Higgs he cut his losses and did what he thought was best for Rovers. When Nick Higgs passed ownership to Dwane Sports he cut his losses and did what he thought was best for Rovers. I think the media may sense that Dwane Sports want to cut their losses, recoup everything they have put in, take a profit on the sale of the land and choose the deal which is best for them and not the one which would be best for Rovers. If this is the case and someone breaks ranks and spills the beans I am afraid most Gasheads will continue their slumber and a few may even cheer Wael on as he ensures we will be perpetually inferior to City. Never a truer word spoken. I have tried,but in vain, to explain a few things but some will just not have it and will always return to their default position of the AQ’s actually saving the club.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 13:30:30 GMT
It will impact them the moment their loans exceed the assets. I doubt very much they are smiling about it though. But its "no lose" for them,you told me that so why would they not smile? Theres a difference between being relieved and happy.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 19, 2019 14:47:50 GMT
The perception of a positive or negative outlook is something which genuinely intrigues me. Is it really taking a positive outlook to witness the club fail financially, as evidenced by the accounts, and yet say or do nothing on the basis that “it might not happen”. If you saw your family threatened in some way would you sit back and hope for the best or would you try to do something about it ? Turning a blind eye to the danger signals we all should see and saying “what will be will be”, when you could try to do something about it, is IMO taking a very negative outlook. I think highlighting the issues, encouraging debate on the possible scenarios and suggesting potential ways of improving Rovers prospects, in other words being optimistic that there is a solution and doing something to try and find it, is taking a very positive outlook. I agree it is good to have the debate. See i am a darrell clarke fan,loved his era,loved the great attacking football we played under him and totally agreed with him when he attacked the owners for not delivering what they promised him and us fans. But i do not know if they are the demons you and others believe they are. They have done much more than good old gashead higgs ever done for the club in my view so i see no reason to presume they will harm or destroy the football club. However crappy the tents are,fans and families still enjoy the game in them,the pitch is better than any rovers pitch i have ever seen anywhere,we have a reasonable league one budget which i simply do not believe higgs would have provided so its not all bad. We will just have to see what occurs. That's a false dichotomy - just because you're critical of the AQ's doesn't mean you think the previous lot did a good job. I'm also not actually sure I agree with that anyway. Higgs and co did back managers with a reasonable playing budget on the whole - the embarrassing part of that whole era was that we actually had the necessary investment in the playing squad to compete at the levels we were playing and were still crap. Our recruitment strategy was terrible and there was a total lack of strategy towards the football side of the club as we lurched from one managerial payoff plus player clear out to the next with the board scapegoating each manager while absolving themselves of responsibility. Plus off the field they seemed to become paranoid and distanced from many of the fanbase which made a joke of the benefits of being 'owned by gasheads'.
I see depressing parallels between Higgs and the AQ's. Higgs was also battling against the clock to get the stadium situation sorted before finances tipped over into a critical situation. What is different here is the scale of the figures. I think it is pretty bad. Despite the fact we're doing quite well on the pitch attendances are down and the atmosphere among Rovers fans at games I've been to has been somewhere between muted and poisonous towards the team and club. All the AQ's off field plans have come to nothing and we have heard little from them about how they intend to take the club forward for years now. That's enough for me to doubt their commitment to the club - keeping the day to day wheels turning should be a bare minimum demand of owners, not reason to celebrate them. The very, very best case that can be made is that we are treading water which might be OK were it not for the fact that doing so on our current trajectory is clearly unsustainable.
Generally when people who know a decent amount about financial matters consistently highlight imminent big red flags for I think it's worth sitting up and taking notice. It's not about whether the AQ's intend to harm the club or not or any other character assessment - I'm sure Higgs and co had the best of intentions too. None of that really matters when a failing strategy bangs up against cold hard economic reality.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 18:01:23 GMT
I agree it is good to have the debate. See i am a darrell clarke fan,loved his era,loved the great attacking football we played under him and totally agreed with him when he attacked the owners for not delivering what they promised him and us fans. But i do not know if they are the demons you and others believe they are. They have done much more than good old gashead higgs ever done for the club in my view so i see no reason to presume they will harm or destroy the football club. However crappy the tents are,fans and families still enjoy the game in them,the pitch is better than any rovers pitch i have ever seen anywhere,we have a reasonable league one budget which i simply do not believe higgs would have provided so its not all bad. We will just have to see what occurs. That's a false dichotomy - just because you're critical of the AQ's doesn't mean you think the previous lot did a good job. I'm also not actually sure I agree with that anyway. Higgs and co did back managers with a reasonable playing budget on the whole - the embarrassing part of that whole era was that we actually had the necessary investment in the playing squad to compete at the levels we were playing and were still crap. Our recruitment strategy was terrible and there was a total lack of strategy towards the football side of the club as we lurched from one managerial payoff plus player clear out to the next with the board scapegoating each manager while absolving themselves of responsibility. Plus off the field they seemed to become paranoid and distanced from many of the fanbase which made a joke of the benefits of being 'owned by gasheads'.
I see depressing parallels between Higgs and the AQ's. Higgs was also battling against the clock to get the stadium situation sorted before finances tipped over into a critical situation. What is different here is the scale of the figures. I think it is pretty bad. Despite the fact we're doing quite well on the pitch attendances are down and the atmosphere among Rovers fans at games I've been to has been somewhere between muted and poisonous towards the team and club. All the AQ's off field plans have come to nothing and we have heard little from them about how they intend to take the club forward for years now. That's enough for me to doubt their commitment to the club - keeping the day to day wheels turning should be a bare minimum demand of owners, not reason to celebrate them. The very, very best case that can be made is that we are treading water which might be OK were it not for the fact that doing so on our current trajectory is clearly unsustainable.
Generally when people who know a decent amount about financial matters consistently highlight imminent big red flags for I think it's worth sitting up and taking notice. It's not about whether the AQ's intend to harm the club or not or any other character assessment - I'm sure Higgs and co had the best of intentions too. None of that really matters when a failing strategy bangs up against cold hard economic reality.
The finances looked 'critical' already, didn't they. How are you going to pay back MSP and build a stadium with £28m? I did wonder if Sainsbury's may have been better off just saying to Higgs, OK, see you after lunch and we'll complete the deal. I'm not sure he would have done it. Again, pure speculation, but maybe the case was all about damages? As you rightly say, Swiss seems to 'have a nose' for these things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 18:49:44 GMT
If the owners are trying to offload the club and are desperate to not to use up the full value of the mem we should get some clues in january. It looks very unlikely that we will get relegated so the logical thing for the owners to do is sell clarke-harris and get nichols/bennett off the wage bill if at all possible. Then bring in 2 cheap loan kids. Anything else would suggest to me that they are not as concerned about the situation as some of our posters are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 19:20:22 GMT
If the owners are trying to offload the club and are desperate to not to use up the full value of the mem we should get some clues in january. It looks very unlikely that we will get relegated so the logical thing for the owners to do is sell clarke-harris and get nichols/bennett off the wage bill if at all possible. Then bring in 2 cheap loan kids. Anything else would suggest to me that they are not as concerned about the situation as some of our posters are. It's all guesswork. When the Sainsbury's thing was going on figures of between £15~22m were being mentioned, I never heard anybody give a number as high as £28m, but that turned out to be the price on the contract. Who knows what deals could be cobbled together, if Rovers are just a small part of unlocking a big development is St Phillips. With that in mind, I wouldn't come to any firm conclusions, just because we don't batten down the financial hatches in January.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 19, 2019 21:30:10 GMT
If the owners are trying to offload the club and are desperate to not to use up the full value of the mem we should get some clues in january. It looks very unlikely that we will get relegated so the logical thing for the owners to do is sell clarke-harris and get nichols/bennett off the wage bill if at all possible. Then bring in 2 cheap loan kids. Anything else would suggest to me that they are not as concerned about the situation as some of our posters are. Well we can hope although what we're hoping for I'm not quite sure. There is a feeling of lethargy around the club with very little positive news or evidence of strategy emerging since the UWE deal collapse. If that doesn't change very soon then I would like to roll the dice and have a change of ownership that could inject some hope and vision into things because it's entirely lacking right now. It's hard to be optimistic unless you can come up with a plausible reason as to why a bunch of Jordanian bankers would want to spunk a load of money away on Rovers to tread water in League 1?
I'm pretty brutal about this. When Higgs (and some might argue Dunford before him) made it clear that we couldn't even hold onto the illusion anymore that the club was anything but an asset to be passed between rich people then my attitude to whoever owns us became 'what have you done for me lately?' The relationship between whoever owns Bristol Rovers and the fans is now purely transactional (as it is at most English club now) so if I'm going to be treated like nothing but a consumer then I'll act like one.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 19, 2019 23:04:05 GMT
I notice YTL showcased their new arena development on points west tonight. Weren’t they supposed to be the big name behind the FM ? If so, it shot
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 10:02:55 GMT
I notice YTL showcased their new arena development on points west tonight. Weren’t they supposed to be the big name behind the FM ? If so, it shot No, they never had anything to do with the Fruit Market. Hilarious to hear old Red Trousers Fergusson sounding so butt hurt on the radio because someone else is about to deliver a project that he failed with.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
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Post by harrybuckle on Nov 20, 2019 10:09:19 GMT
I notice YTL showcased their new arena development on points west tonight. Weren’t they supposed to be the big name behind the FM ? If so, it shot No, they never had anything to do with the Fruit Market. Hilarious to hear old Red Trousers Fergusson sounding so butt hurt on the radio because someone else is about to deliver a project that he failed with. Am I correct that Steve Lansdown is a part owner of the fruit market and is unlikely to assist our plans down there ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 10:25:07 GMT
No, they never had anything to do with the Fruit Market. Hilarious to hear old Red Trousers Fergusson sounding so butt hurt on the radio because someone else is about to deliver a project that he failed with. Am I correct that Steve Lansdown is a part owner of the fruit market and is unlikely to assist our plans down there ? I have no idea. But go back again and read the transcript on here from Marvin, it gives a clue as to how determined he is to make this thing happen. He still has several fundamental problems though, I've touched on a couple of those in previous posts on here, one of them will be getting elected again. I'll challenge anyone on here, without searching around the internet, to name a single positive impact he has had during his time so far in office.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 20, 2019 10:32:00 GMT
I notice YTL showcased their new arena development on points west tonight. Weren’t they supposed to be the big name behind the FM ? If so, it shot No, they never had anything to do with the Fruit Market. Hilarious to hear old Red Trousers Fergusson sounding so butt hurt on the radio because someone else is about to deliver a project that he failed with. Thanks. I somehow thought they were involved but I have been reading they have been approached?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 20, 2019 10:34:20 GMT
No, they never had anything to do with the Fruit Market. Hilarious to hear old Red Trousers Fergusson sounding so butt hurt on the radio because someone else is about to deliver a project that he failed with. Am I correct that Steve Lansdown is a part owner of the fruit market and is unlikely to assist our plans down there ? He is only involved in that he has a contract with total produce to buy their products. It remains to be seen if it’s a way for him to exert pressure but I’d doubt it but you know the old saying, money talks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 10:44:17 GMT
No, they never had anything to do with the Fruit Market. Hilarious to hear old Red Trousers Fergusson sounding so butt hurt on the radio because someone else is about to deliver a project that he failed with. Thanks. I somehow thought they were involved but I have been reading they have been approached? You know how message boards get clogged up with ITK stuff, where people suggest things but won't quite come out and say it? Well, here you go. I asked YTL directly if they had been approached by Rovers or anybody representing Rovers regarding incorporating football facilities into their Filton plans. They looked confused and said that there had been no contact. In response to a different question, they said that they knew nothing at all about the Fruit Market development plans. I have no reason to think that they would not be telling the truth. Remember that a football stadium in isolation makes no sense whatsoever in St Phillips, in fact, it's a totally ridiculous location. But look at a map and see where that site is in relation to the original proposed Arena location. Add to that, there's a reason why our Mayor is all over this. I don't think that YTL would build 2 Arenas in Bristol. Sat here grinning my head off thinking about poor old George cycling along, all red in the face and angry.
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