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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 28, 2019 19:30:11 GMT
What doesn't help is the Premier clubs keeping the lions share of any moneys between themselves
This is what they themselves voted for in 1990s.
Since then the injection of finances into the sport has increased by millions of % which wasn't fully understood at the time, and of course the distribution has been disproportionately kept top heavy.
This doesn't help any club outside the elite, yet (generally) they pool their resources from subscription and players from clubs on ground level that aren't rich with resources.
It's not direct in responsibility of Bolton and Burt's plight, but it certainly doesn't help .
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 28, 2019 22:49:32 GMT
A day after the Football League pulled the plug on Bury’s current membership, Bolton Wanderers were able to announce a last-minute reprieve with the club administrators confirming the sale to Football Ventures Limited has been completed.
Bolton were on the verge of liquidation after four months of unpaid bills, postponed fixtures and unremunerated playing and safety staff led to a 14-day final deadline, with the administrator Paul Appleton told to either sell the League One club or prove it can be funded for the test of the season.
In a statement released at teatime on Wednesday Appleton said: “This has been one of the most complicated administrations I have been involved with, but I am delighted to say we have finally reached a satisfactory conclusion with the sale to Football Ventures.”
As late as Monday Appleton had revealed there was no money left to fund the club after a takeover bid by the FV consortium had stalled, and though talks continued on Tuesday in an attempt to broker a deal before the 5pm deadline, the EFL still felt compelled to enforce a 14-day notice to withdraw Bolton’s membership.
The sticking point during talks was believed to be a dispute between Bolton’s most recent owner, Ken Anderson, and their biggest creditor, the family trust set up by millionaire businessman and benefactor Eddie Davies before his death last year.
Anderson was already struggling to meet expenses and keep the club afloat before the situation was complicated by a fresh takeover bid from Laurence Bassini, a controversial would-be owner who was briefly involved at Watford but has twice been declared bankrupt and was once banned for three years for financial misconduct.
Even when unpaid bills and an inability to complete fixtures through a shortage of stewards and safety staff saw the club placed in administration, Appleton’s attempts to conduct a sale to preferred bidders Football Ventures were delayed by what the administrator referred to as “unhelpful” interventions by Bassini in an attempt to win over supporters and persuade the club he could come up with more money. The administrator reserved most of his scorn, however, for the departing owner Anderson.
Appleton said: “At times some of the hurdles appeared to be insurmountable and the frustration felt has been immense, not least by supporters who have had to endure too many weeks of uncertainty. I would like to pay particular tribute to the Eddie Davies Trust and their legal team, who throughout the whole process have been willing to do everything in their power to unsure Eddie’s incredible legacy was maintained and not sullied. Even at the 11th hour when other parties were content to renege on their agreements, the Trust realised the very existence of Bolton Wanderers was at stake and were willing to find compromise.
“It is testament to their unflinching determination that we were able to complete the deal, because some of the circumstances and demands they faced were wholly unreasonable, but they were not prepared to allow Eddie’s beloved Bolton to suffer any longer at the hands of Ken Anderson. Sadly Mr Anderson used his position as a secured creditor to hamper and frustrate any deal that did not benefit him or suit his purposes. Thankfully, with the assistance of the Trust and others, we were able to overcome this obstacle.”
Football Ventures said in a statement: “We remained focused on completion of the deal, even when at times it was difficult to keep our counsel, with further damage to the club being inflicted by delays outside of our control. Now we are excited to begin restoring this magnificent club to its rightful position, and securing its future for the fans, the staff and the players.”
Though there was obviously relief in the north-west that Bolton had not followed Bury into oblivion, there is still plenty to be done before anyone can start celebrating. Beginning the season with a 12-point deduction for going into administration, Bolton will be rooted to the bottom of League One for some time after taking only one point from their first four matches.
Last week the manager Phil Parkinson resigned with the situation at its bleakest, most of the club’s seasoned professionals are long gone, and an EFL punishment for failing to fulfil the final fixture of last season is still to be worked out.
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Post by badbloodash on Aug 29, 2019 15:58:04 GMT
They will be the first of many some drastic changes in the lower leagues coming too many owners who don’t care about the fans too much money in the premiership due to overseas interest yet more fans actually attend non premiership sad really tv money has killed football I agree that Bury could be the first of many but I think that there are a lot of factors. Lower league clubs seem to have an older fanbase and that is unsustainable,I expect that more Rovers supporters have died in the last 3 years than new supporters have started to go to games. Also going to a football match is a lot more expensive than it was years ago plus there was very little else to do then compared to now. Take one example,gyms,there used to be just Graftons and that was expensive,now there are dozens of gyms in fact we must be at saturation point,I would bet that more young people go to the gym than go to Rovers and city games. I go to the gym 4 times a week,a total of 9 hours including swimming,there are various classes included in the membership a pool,steamroom etc etc and it works out at £8.50 a week ! Times have changed,just look at how many pubs have closed down in the last few years. I am amazed that clubs like Bury have managed to keep going this long on gates of 3000 or less,probably a lot of clubs will have to drop into non league football with part time players. Well I tried my hardest to keep as many pubs as possible open 🍺🍺🍺
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 31, 2019 11:52:14 GMT
ON the BOLTON theme,this day in 1986 they were the visitors at Twerton for Rovers in their first league game there after leaving Eastville, Rovers winning with a Trevor Morgan penalty[4092] Nicky Tanner was sent off in this game
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 12:19:34 GMT
They will be the first of many some drastic changes in the lower leagues coming too many owners who don’t care about the fans too much money in the premiership due to overseas interest yet more fans actually attend non premiership sad really tv money has killed football I agree that Bury could be the first of many but I think that there are a lot of factors. Lower league clubs seem to have an older fanbase and that is unsustainable,I expect that more Rovers supporters have died in the last 3 years than new supporters have started to go to games. Also going to a football match is a lot more expensive than it was years ago plus there was very little else to do then compared to now. Take one example,gyms,there used to be just Graftons and that was expensive,now there are dozens of gyms in fact we must be at saturation point,I would bet that more young people go to the gym than go to Rovers and city games. I go to the gym 4 times a week,a total of 9 hours including swimming,there are various classes included in the membership a pool,steamroom etc etc and it works out at £8.50 a week ! Times have changed,just look at how many pubs have closed down in the last few years. I am amazed that clubs like Bury have managed to keep going this long on gates of 3000 or less,probably a lot of clubs will have to drop into non league football with part time players. Don't think that's the case. You can blindly run the admission cost through an inflation / wage calculator, but in terms of disposable income, youngsters today are every bit as able to find £20 as were to find whatever it cost back then to get in to The Tote End. The main thing is the next point you make, pressure on time and available alternatives. There weren't gyms or concert weekends on The Downs in the 70's competing for your time. We had Dickie Davies though....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 16:10:49 GMT
Keep your worries for the gas f**k Bolton. We are in the s**t with low crowds and s**t football.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 1, 2019 12:13:11 GMT
I agree that Bury could be the first of many but I think that there are a lot of factors. Lower league clubs seem to have an older fanbase and that is unsustainable,I expect that more Rovers supporters have died in the last 3 years than new supporters have started to go to games. Also going to a football match is a lot more expensive than it was years ago plus there was very little else to do then compared to now. Take one example,gyms,there used to be just Graftons and that was expensive,now there are dozens of gyms in fact we must be at saturation point,I would bet that more young people go to the gym than go to Rovers and city games. I go to the gym 4 times a week,a total of 9 hours including swimming,there are various classes included in the membership a pool,steamroom etc etc and it works out at £8.50 a week ! Times have changed,just look at how many pubs have closed down in the last few years. I am amazed that clubs like Bury have managed to keep going this long on gates of 3000 or less,probably a lot of clubs will have to drop into non league football with part time players. Don't think that's the case. You can blindly run the admission cost through an inflation / wage calculator, but in terms of disposable income, youngsters today are every bit as able to find £20 as were to find whatever it cost back then to get in to The Tote End. The main thing is the next point you make, pressure on time and available alternatives. There weren't gyms or concert weekends on The Downs in the 70's competing for your time. We had Dickie Davies though.... Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 12:48:09 GMT
Don't think that's the case. You can blindly run the admission cost through an inflation / wage calculator, but in terms of disposable income, youngsters today are every bit as able to find £20 as were to find whatever it cost back then to get in to The Tote End. The main thing is the next point you make, pressure on time and available alternatives. There weren't gyms or concert weekends on The Downs in the 70's competing for your time. We had Dickie Davies though.... Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please?
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,430
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Post by trymer on Sept 1, 2019 12:56:11 GMT
I agree that Bury could be the first of many but I think that there are a lot of factors. Lower league clubs seem to have an older fanbase and that is unsustainable,I expect that more Rovers supporters have died in the last 3 years than new supporters have started to go to games. Also going to a football match is a lot more expensive than it was years ago plus there was very little else to do then compared to now. Take one example,gyms,there used to be just Graftons and that was expensive,now there are dozens of gyms in fact we must be at saturation point,I would bet that more young people go to the gym than go to Rovers and city games. I go to the gym 4 times a week,a total of 9 hours including swimming,there are various classes included in the membership a pool,steamroom etc etc and it works out at £8.50 a week ! Times have changed,just look at how many pubs have closed down in the last few years. I am amazed that clubs like Bury have managed to keep going this long on gates of 3000 or less,probably a lot of clubs will have to drop into non league football with part time players. Well I tried my hardest to keep as many pubs as possible open 🍺🍺🍺 I know mate but sadly about a third of the pubs have closed since 1982,times have changed and peoples habits have changed too.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Sept 1, 2019 13:02:26 GMT
I agree that Bury could be the first of many but I think that there are a lot of factors. Lower league clubs seem to have an older fanbase and that is unsustainable,I expect that more Rovers supporters have died in the last 3 years than new supporters have started to go to games. Also going to a football match is a lot more expensive than it was years ago plus there was very little else to do then compared to now. Take one example,gyms,there used to be just Graftons and that was expensive,now there are dozens of gyms in fact we must be at saturation point,I would bet that more young people go to the gym than go to Rovers and city games. I go to the gym 4 times a week,a total of 9 hours including swimming,there are various classes included in the membership a pool,steamroom etc etc and it works out at £8.50 a week ! Times have changed,just look at how many pubs have closed down in the last few years. I am amazed that clubs like Bury have managed to keep going this long on gates of 3000 or less,probably a lot of clubs will have to drop into non league football with part time players. Don't think that's the case. You can blindly run the admission cost through an inflation / wage calculator, but in terms of disposable income, youngsters today are every bit as able to find £20 as were to find whatever it cost back then to get in to The Tote End. The main thing is the next point you make, pressure on time and available alternatives. There weren't gyms or concert weekends on The Downs in the 70's competing for your time. We had Dickie Davies though.... I had a look for 70s admission prices and saw a ticket for Man Utd v Liverpool 1976 (Stretford end) 70p,according to the Bank of England inflation calculator £1 in 1976 is £7.07 now. So £4.95 (ish) for a top tier game then V £20 for a third tier game now,seems more expensive now to me.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,430
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Post by trymer on Sept 1, 2019 13:13:01 GMT
Don't think that's the case. You can blindly run the admission cost through an inflation / wage calculator, but in terms of disposable income, youngsters today are every bit as able to find £20 as were to find whatever it cost back then to get in to The Tote End. The main thing is the next point you make, pressure on time and available alternatives. There weren't gyms or concert weekends on The Downs in the 70's competing for your time. We had Dickie Davies though.... Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days Graftons wasn't women only,in fact I just googled Graftons gym Bristol and it came up with Graftons fitness for men Pithay Bristol,in 1977 I was still an apprentice and one of the tradesmen trained there he was gutted that he couldn't afford to renew his membership. The Empire wasn't open to the public every night it was more for Weightlifters and Boxing, the gym that I go to has a membership of over 4000 ! that's one gym imagine how many people (mainly younger people) are gym members in Bristol,and that's one thing there is so much more for people to do now. I think that you miss the point of my post,its not about people who go to football already,its about how those peoples numbers are dwindling and not being replaced by new customers,as I said its unsustainable and I just noticed that Gareth Southgate said exactly the same thing about Bury and lower league clubs in debt.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,430
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Post by trymer on Sept 1, 2019 13:14:31 GMT
Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please? Even if Rovers sold out every week would they break even with the amount of debt as it is now ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 13:30:10 GMT
Don't think that's the case. You can blindly run the admission cost through an inflation / wage calculator, but in terms of disposable income, youngsters today are every bit as able to find £20 as were to find whatever it cost back then to get in to The Tote End. The main thing is the next point you make, pressure on time and available alternatives. There weren't gyms or concert weekends on The Downs in the 70's competing for your time. We had Dickie Davies though.... I had a look for 70s admission prices and saw a ticket for Man Utd v Liverpool 1976 (Stretford end) 70p,according to the Bank of England inflation calculator £1 in 1976 is £7.07 now. So £4.95 (ish) for a top tier game then V £20 for a third tier game now,seems more expensive now to me. Yes, I accept that, but the real question is, what is that 70p / £4.95 in relation to disposable income? The standard of living enjoyed by people in their late teens and twenties is unrecognisable to what it was in the late 1960s and 1970s.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 13:30:49 GMT
I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please? Even if Rovers sold out every week would they break even with the amount of debt as it is now ? No, we would just get a bigger London office.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 1, 2019 16:17:43 GMT
Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please? We as fans shouldn't be paying for anything, exactly. We just turn up, support the team and management on the pitch in the 90mins on a Saturday and sometimes on a weekday. There's plenty of poor decisions (mostly with hindsight) made out of the jurisdiction of the humble fan by encumbrances..... London office, Santa Grotto, anything watertight, a supporters club that becomes a gambling joint, suspend west stand for east stand in league cup, then open west stand due to demand (?), f ckin Macron, ffs.......? None of these have been in the interest of the cash paying fan. It's the way the club's run. Accounting and breaking even seems to be a mile away when it comes to priorities.....we got beat by a club that can't hit 3000 at home, including a team that have none of the encumbrances above...?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 17:32:26 GMT
I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please? We as fans shouldn't be paying for anything, exactly. We just turn up, support the team and management on the pitch in the 90mins on a Saturday and sometimes on a weekday. There's plenty of poor decisions (mostly with hindsight) made out of the jurisdiction of the humble fan by encumbrances..... London office, Santa Grotto, anything watertight, a supporters club that becomes a gambling joint, suspend west stand for east stand in league cup, then open west stand due to demand (?), f ckin Macron, ffs.......? None of these have been in the interest of the cash paying fan. It's the way the club's run. Accounting and breaking even seems to be a mile away when it comes to priorities.....we got beat by a club that can't hit 3000 at home, including a team that have none of the encumbrances above...? I can assure you that accounting is very much a priority. They remembered to put a charge on the stadium. That was one of Wael's finer comedy moments, what was it he said, ''because in business you never know what can happen''? Either he's stupid or he thinks we are!
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 1, 2019 18:23:05 GMT
We as fans shouldn't be paying for anything, exactly. We just turn up, support the team and management on the pitch in the 90mins on a Saturday and sometimes on a weekday. There's plenty of poor decisions (mostly with hindsight) made out of the jurisdiction of the humble fan by encumbrances..... London office, Santa Grotto, anything watertight, a supporters club that becomes a gambling joint, suspend west stand for east stand in league cup, then open west stand due to demand (?), f ckin Macron, ffs.......? None of these have been in the interest of the cash paying fan. It's the way the club's run. Accounting and breaking even seems to be a mile away when it comes to priorities.....we got beat by a club that can't hit 3000 at home, including a team that have none of the encumbrances above...? I can assure you that accounting is very much a priority. They remembered to put a charge on the stadium. That was one of Wael's finer comedy moments, what was it he said, ''because in business you never know what can happen''? Either he's stupid or he thinks we are! I think I'm the one who's stupid. I don't understand why in business, you can never know what happens? Ergo, I can't understand knowing that, why would anyone want to go into business?? So confused!? Is it fair to say, throughout our recent history, we've been run from Eastville to Twerton to Mem and at each decision stage, we've been club v fans? Then, when everything has settled down (thank the dunfords, especially Denis), the distance between fans and club has been more or less explicit in relation to our league position and status? That's the way I see it, in very general terms. With little or stupid gashead paying fan stupidity. To conclude, I see nothing changing in near future of any scope. Everything else is delusional.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 2, 2019 9:27:09 GMT
Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days Graftons wasn't women only,in fact I just googled Graftons gym Bristol and it came up with Graftons fitness for men Pithay Bristol,in 1977 I was still an apprentice and one of the tradesmen trained there he was gutted that he couldn't afford to renew his membership. The Empire wasn't open to the public every night it was more for Weightlifters and Boxing, the gym that I go to has a membership of over 4000 ! that's one gym imagine how many people (mainly younger people) are gym members in Bristol,and that's one thing there is so much more for people to do now. I think that you miss the point of my post,its not about people who go to football already,its about how those peoples numbers are dwindling and not being replaced by new customers,as I said its unsustainable and I just noticed that Gareth Southgate said exactly the same thing about Bury and lower league clubs in debt. Fair comment mate. As far as Graftons gym, are we talking about the one along the road from mad harry’s ? If so then it became women only but I do get what you’re saying plus me and the friend I go with have noticed, many times, that the crowd at Rovers is an ageing one by comparison to the other lot. It’s gutting to see youngsters in Kingswood following them now
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 2, 2019 9:32:15 GMT
Graftons was women only. We have had the empire for years, for the real 🏋️♀️ deal and a few others. It’s much more simple for me, you either support or you don’t. I’ve kept going more for the social side than football as there are many I wouldn’t otherwise see. so, what happened to faithful & true lol. I know, I know... there are only so many promises anyone can see broken but I’d be devastated if it was us and we had an inflated crowd v Poxford, due to snakey. I’d say we need to show up now, more than ever. It would make things much better if we at least broke even, on match days I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please? It’s all personal choice. I respect your view and feel very similar but it would make it much easier to go into admin if the crowds get worse as the owners can then rationalise it. I’m not anti Wael but I’m pro Rovers
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 9:47:45 GMT
I'm not interested in helping these owners break even with their version of accounting. Remember that they are awarding themselves interest on what are, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest losses in out history, and I think that the London office is also on the club accounts. Why should we pay for that exactly please? It’s all personal choice. I respect your view and feel very similar but it would make it much easier to go into admin if the crowds get worse as the owners can then rationalise it. I’m not anti Wael but I’m pro Rovers I often think that people don't understand what going in to administration actually is or why it happens.
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