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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on May 12, 2019 6:59:26 GMT
Salford were founded in 1940 so it is not really a vanity project. Salford is like Gateshead; a large city separated from another large city by water. In this case a canal. Despite being a part of the Manchester urban sprawl, it still has a very strong identity, unlike clubs such as Fleetwood and Fylde. It will be interesting to see if they can increase their fanbase and progress sustainably, or whether they get to League One and fizzle out like others before them. With their money and football know-how I've a feeling they'll be in the Championship before too long. As for replacing the oldest league club, good for them. The league needs more forward-thinking clubs and fewer that think they have some sovereign right to league status just because they've been plodding around in it since Victorian times. A kick up the *ss didn't do us any harm after all.
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Igitur
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Post by Igitur on May 12, 2019 9:26:52 GMT
Accrington - all that and without a sexy new ground.
Fylde and Salford are manufactured, despite being around for decades, in that rich owners have been willing to pump in the invest money as with Accrington. We are stagnating because Wael cannot get the funds from bruv.
Watching the PO game yesterday, both clubs will need to bring in a fair few number of players.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 12, 2019 9:59:11 GMT
Salford were founded in 1940 so it is not really a vanity project. Salford is like Gateshead; a large city separated from another large city by water. In this case a canal. Despite being a part of the Manchester urban sprawl, it still has a very strong identity, unlike clubs such as Fleetwood and Fylde. It will be interesting to see if they can increase their fanbase and progress sustainably, or whether they get to League One and fizzle out like others before them. With their money and football know-how I've a feeling they'll be in the Championship before too long. As for replacing the oldest league club, good for them. The league needs more forward-thinking clubs and fewer that think they have some sovereign right to league status just because they've been plodding around in it since Victorian times. A kick up the *ss didn't do us any harm after all. Some valid points. I guess if they can pull in a few favours from the manure connection... and find ways around financial fair play rules (which don't apply below tier 4) then you never know. As we know Div 2 to Div 1 is not a big gap. But there is a growing chasm between Div 1 and the Championship. What is the ball-park attendance figure to compete there these days? If a Club is run "properly" - maybe around the 15,000 mark? I don't think Salford could get anywhere near the Championship in any kind of "sustainable" mode unless their crowds pick up massively. Average attendance in the National League was 2,489.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 12, 2019 11:14:31 GMT
Just in case there's any doubt, Peter Lim is worth over £2,000,000,000. (Two billion pounds) I don't think Salford will be hanging around the 4th division for long. So, another traditional League club ends up in the 5th tier so that a manufactured entity can play League football. But surely he will have to abide by the rules on only spending X amount of turnover, I know I’m being naive but they are no Man City and it would take a huge leap of imagination in trying to rationalise any big spending, on players ? Just over 8K at Wembley, that is a farce in itself. I thought they were owned by the old United boys & that was the only reason I had even heard of them. I guess we can look forward to some creative accounting. I noticed the Gaffney was in the bench.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 11:14:51 GMT
Salford were founded in 1940 so it is not really a vanity project. Salford is like Gateshead; a large city separated from another large city by water. In this case a canal. Despite being a part of the Manchester urban sprawl, it still has a very strong identity, unlike clubs such as Fleetwood and Fylde. It will be interesting to see if they can increase their fanbase and progress sustainably, or whether they get to League One and fizzle out like others before them. With their money and football know-how I've a feeling they'll be in the Championship before too long. As for replacing the oldest league club, good for them. The league needs more forward-thinking clubs and fewer that think they have some sovereign right to league status just because they've been plodding around in it since Victorian times. A kick up the *ss didn't do us any harm after all. If we were talking about Rovers I would say that we were architects of our own downfall and the people running the club brought our exit from the League on us, we could all see it coming, it was just a matter of time. But when you see so many other clubs; Torquay, Aldershot, Grimsbury, Wrexham, Chesterfield, Halifax, Hartlepool, Stockport, Chester, York, there are probably some others that I've forgotten, all falling to the 5th tier or lower and struggling to get back, and you see clubs getting into the mess that Bolton are in and Luton got into, doesn't that suggest that running a club now comes with additional challenges than in years gone by? I don't think that anybody thinks they have a right to be in the League or to win 1 or 3 points, everybody understands that the other 11 blokes are going to try to do it to us before we do it to them. I see clubs like Salford as being exactly what we don't need. It's getting rid of your local where you have your own glass behind the bar and have always enjoyed the company of good friends and replacing it with a Starbucks, sterile, no history, where some youngster puts on a false smile and insists on taking your first name before they will serve you. They are just Citeh, but without the financial steroids. Let's see how many England / Scotland / Ireland / Wales players they produce via their academy shall we?
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Post by Curly Wurly on May 12, 2019 11:21:46 GMT
During Sky's coverage of Accrington's recent game with Luton, the commentator mentioned that Accrington are about to spend £300,000 on re-laying the pitch at their ground. I seem to remember that our re-vamp in the last pre-season was reported to have cost "only" £100,000. I know the weather just west of the Pennines is atrocious (and we suffered the worst of it in our last two fixtures at Accrington!), but - aside from the reason for planning to spend three times as much as us - how will they be able to spend this AND put out a team that is competitive in League One? I'm sure they will, though! As well as a minimum requirement for small clubs like Accrington to manage their finances well, there is the regional benefit of being in the North West. Instead of being crowded out by bigger neighbours, there is a demonstrable benefit for Accrington, Bury, Rochdale, etc. (or historically Burnley, Preston and Blackburn for that matter) in picking up decent players on reasonable wages. Whereas, for one reason or another Bristol remains an outlier. It doesn't always go well as Bolton are now proving, but there is a definite advantage in being in the North West IMO
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 11:44:54 GMT
During Sky's coverage of Accrington's recent game with Luton, the commentator mentioned that Accrington are about to spend £300,000 on re-laying the pitch at their ground. I seem to remember that our re-vamp in the last pre-season was reported to have cost "only" £100,000. I know the weather just west of the Pennines is atrocious (and we suffered the worst of it in our last two fixtures at Accrington!), but - aside from the reason for planning to spend three times as much as us - how will they be able to spend this AND put out a team that is competitive in League One? I'm sure they will, though! As well as a minimum requirement for small clubs like Accrington to manage their finances well, there is the regional benefit of being in the North West. Instead of being crowded out by bigger neighbours, there is a demonstrable benefit for Accrington, Bury, Rochdale, etc. (or historically Burnley, Preston and Blackburn for that matter) in picking up decent players on reasonable wages. Whereas, for one reason or another Bristol remains an outlier. It doesn't always go well as Bolton are now proving, but there is a definite advantage in being in the North West IMO
Just for the avoidance of confusion. We've done this multiple times. Players will go where the salary and length of contract is. Manchester or Preston Vs Bristol, it's not as if they are being asked to play in Siberia. Of course, you'll always get some people who are settled in an area and will want to stay there, but it's just as likely that a player would want to get himself and his family away from certain other locations and move to Bristol. I don't see it myself, but our City always scores well on lists of desirable places to live. In fact, I seem to remember, The Sunday Times named Bristol the very best place to live about a year ago?
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Post by Curly Wurly on May 12, 2019 12:25:44 GMT
As well as a minimum requirement for small clubs like Accrington to manage their finances well, there is the regional benefit of being in the North West. Instead of being crowded out by bigger neighbours, there is a demonstrable benefit for Accrington, Bury, Rochdale, etc. (or historically Burnley, Preston and Blackburn for that matter) in picking up decent players on reasonable wages. Whereas, for one reason or another Bristol remains an outlier. It doesn't always go well as Bolton are now proving, but there is a definite advantage in being in the North West IMO
Just for the avoidance of confusion. We've done this multiple times. Players will go where the salary and length of contract is. Manchester or Preston Vs Bristol, it's not as if they are being asked to play in Siberia. Of course, you'll always get some people who are settled in an area and will want to stay there, but it's just as likely that a player would want to get himself and his family away from certain other locations and move to Bristol. I don't see it myself, but our City always scores well on lists of desirable places to live. In fact, I seem to remember, The Sunday Times named Bristol the very best place to live about a year ago? Sorry for the repetition(!)
Bristol might be a very nice place to live, whereas I'd be pretty sure that Accrington would be a bit further down the list - but does your theory explain the map?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 12, 2019 12:37:47 GMT
1. Say we offered to pay an extra £250 a week more for a player currently at Accrington - would that even cover the additional cost of renting a house and the cost of living in the Bristol area? On top of the logistics of upping sticks and moving 170 miles from 'home'. 2. Although football is a basket case of an industry, there are plenty of examples of industries "clustering" with associated economic benefits. I guess the north west has benefited from this since the introduction of the league in 1888. Also might go some way to explaining why the biggest two supported teams that have never played in tier 1 are Plymouth and Bristol Rovers...
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dido
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Post by dido on May 12, 2019 12:57:59 GMT
As well as a minimum requirement for small clubs like Accrington to manage their finances well, there is the regional benefit of being in the North West. Instead of being crowded out by bigger neighbours, there is a demonstrable benefit for Accrington, Bury, Rochdale, etc. (or historically Burnley, Preston and Blackburn for that matter) in picking up decent players on reasonable wages. Whereas, for one reason or another Bristol remains an outlier. It doesn't always go well as Bolton are now proving, but there is a definite advantage in being in the North West IMO
Just for the avoidance of confusion. We've done this multiple times. Players will go where the salary and length of contract is. Manchester or Preston Vs Bristol, it's not as if they are being asked to play in Siberia. Of course, you'll always get some people who are settled in an area and will want to stay there, but it's just as likely that a player would want to get himself and his family away from certain other locations and move to Bristol. I don't see it myself, but our City always scores well on lists of desirable places to live. In fact, I seem to remember, The Sunday Times named Bristol the very best place to live about a year ago? It's almost as if footballers and their agents don't read The Sunday Times.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 13:03:47 GMT
Just for the avoidance of confusion. We've done this multiple times. Players will go where the salary and length of contract is. Manchester or Preston Vs Bristol, it's not as if they are being asked to play in Siberia. Of course, you'll always get some people who are settled in an area and will want to stay there, but it's just as likely that a player would want to get himself and his family away from certain other locations and move to Bristol. I don't see it myself, but our City always scores well on lists of desirable places to live. In fact, I seem to remember, The Sunday Times named Bristol the very best place to live about a year ago? It's almost as if footballers and their agents don't read The Sunday Times. What's your point? 1982 are doing OK attracting players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 13:09:11 GMT
Just for the avoidance of confusion. We've done this multiple times. Players will go where the salary and length of contract is. Manchester or Preston Vs Bristol, it's not as if they are being asked to play in Siberia. Of course, you'll always get some people who are settled in an area and will want to stay there, but it's just as likely that a player would want to get himself and his family away from certain other locations and move to Bristol. I don't see it myself, but our City always scores well on lists of desirable places to live. In fact, I seem to remember, The Sunday Times named Bristol the very best place to live about a year ago? Sorry for the repetition(!)
Bristol might be a very nice place to live, whereas I'd be pretty sure that Accrington would be a bit further down the list - but does your theory explain the map?
The map isn't clear in what it's attempting to demonstrate, it looks like something a 12 year old has knocked up in a school lesson, but I think it's showing that there's a higher density of player population in areas that have a higher density of clubs. What do you expect, players to commute from a lovely cottage in a Cornwall cove to train in Bury?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 12, 2019 13:32:06 GMT
It's almost as if footballers and their agents don't read The Sunday Times. What's your point? 1982 are doing OK attracting players. The Championship is a totally different ball game. We're not talking about an extra £250/£300 a week to induce someone to re-locate... it's more like £2,500/£3,000 a week - and at that sort of price point - yes, people will go anywhere. I remember Middlesbrough attracting some big names when they had some cash. Middlesborough!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 13:53:27 GMT
What's your point? 1982 are doing OK attracting players. The Championship is a totally different ball game. We're not talking about an extra £250/£300 a week to induce someone to re-locate... it's more like £2,500/£3,000 a week - and at that sort of price point - yes, people will go anywhere. I remember Middlesbrough attracting some big names when they had some cash. Middlesborough! This is the point exactly. Look at the number of teams surviving around the Manchester area, total population for that area 2.4m people, all BS postcodes have just under 1 million people, look at how many clubs feed off of the population of the Manchester area, then look at the 2 clubs that feed off of 940,000 people who live in our area. If Rovers were run properly and had a stadium fit for purpose, based on population, there's no reason whatsoever why we shouldn't be a 2nd division team.
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Post by lostinspace on May 12, 2019 16:22:28 GMT
The Championship is a totally different ball game. We're not talking about an extra £250/£300 a week to induce someone to re-locate... it's more like £2,500/£3,000 a week - and at that sort of price point - yes, people will go anywhere. I remember Middlesbrough attracting some big names when they had some cash. Middlesborough! This is the point exactly. Look at the number of teams surviving around the Manchester area, total population for that area 2.4m people, all BS postcodes have just under 1 million people, look at how many clubs feed off of the population of the Manchester area, then look at the 2 clubs that feed off of 940,000 people who live in our area. If Rovers were run properly and had a stadium fit for purpose, based on population, there's no reason whatsoever why we shouldn't be a 2nd division team. and just increased by 1 ...Salford... thanks to the "prolific" Rory Gaffney!! interesting to see with a new 5000 capacity stadium [ave gates of "not very big" ,how well they progress/regress in the "class of 92 dream" now money is a bigger factor than from where they have emerged in their recent history
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Post by Curly Wurly on May 12, 2019 17:27:51 GMT
Sorry for the repetition(!)
Bristol might be a very nice place to live, whereas I'd be pretty sure that Accrington would be a bit further down the list - but does your theory explain the map?
The map isn't clear in what it's attempting to demonstrate, it looks like something a 12 year old has knocked up in a school lesson, but I think it's showing that there's a higher density of player population in areas that have a higher density of clubs. What do you expect, players to commute from a lovely cottage in a Cornwall cove to train in Bury? Sorry the map didn't meet your high standards - although I thought it was quite clear what it is attempting to demonstrate.
I certainly don't expect players to commute Cornwall to train in Bury - the point being that there are already plenty of players within commuting distance of Bury, who seem willing to stay reasonably local. Indeed a quick look at their squad indicates the vast majority have already played for other clubs within a 40 mile radius. I suspect it would be the same for most other clubs in the region.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 12, 2019 18:00:36 GMT
An Orient supporting 'Salford hating' fan informs me that the average Salford gate 5 years ago was 139. Well played to get to 2,500(ish)... but one hell of a lot to do to get anywhere near 10,000 and remotely sustainable in tier 2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 19:15:42 GMT
The map isn't clear in what it's attempting to demonstrate, it looks like something a 12 year old has knocked up in a school lesson, but I think it's showing that there's a higher density of player population in areas that have a higher density of clubs. What do you expect, players to commute from a lovely cottage in a Cornwall cove to train in Bury? Sorry the map didn't meet your high standards - although I thought it was quite clear what it is attempting to demonstrate.
I certainly don't expect players to commute Cornwall to train in Bury - the point being that there are already plenty of players within commuting distance of Bury, who seem willing to stay reasonably local. Indeed a quick look at their squad indicates the vast majority have already played for other clubs within a 40 mile radius. I suspect it would be the same for most other clubs in the region.
Maybe you can see the writing on the map, even when I expand the thing it's tiny, so it means nothing to me, but it does look as if it's demonstrating the same point that you are making, namely, lots of player reside in an area that has lots of clubs. What did you expect to see? This type of thing often sets out to demonstrate a point. How about you go find those players and ask them what offers they turned down to relocate. You'll have to pardon me if that's covered on the map, I simply can't read it. Here's one example, Mr Lambert, previous clubs, Macclesfield, Rochdale, Blackpool, Stockport. How many Southern clubs tried to sign him before he came to Bristol? Once here he didn't exactly go scuttling straight off up North again, in fact, he went further South, then North, then Midlands, then South Wales. Players will go where the salary and length of contract takes them. Although, I do understand that Rickie's decision to go to Anfield, whilst it probably made financial sense, also had an emotional element to it.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on May 13, 2019 5:39:24 GMT
It's bollocks. Salford are a made up club like Fleetwood. To think they are replacing the oldest league club in the world makes me sad. I hope they go down next year with Macclesfield and Notts County and Wrexham get back in the league where they belong. All clubs are 'made up', but some have history and deep roots in the community, whilst some are just vanity projects for sad vainglorious individuals. New money doesn't go down well in this country does it. From the landed gentry having working class footballers and lottery winners as neighbours, to football fans not wanting anyone new to join 'their' club . I daresay if Wael did start to splash the cash and we made it to the promised land (stop laughing at the back), the big boys would treat us with disdain and we would accuse them of snobbery
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dido
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Post by dido on May 13, 2019 5:46:00 GMT
Indeed, Rex. Chips on shoulders wherever you look.
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