warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 11, 2019 15:48:47 GMT
Yes, that might be a way to go. If it is a genuine injury or the player is genuinely hurt then that is what happens (usually a substitution). Were the refs to do that for players who deliberately act as if they are nearly dead and keep them off the pitch for a period of time it might stop players over reacting. But I guess in those circumstances the argument would be that the perpetrator’s side gets the man advantage for a period of time and the “injured” man’s side get a disadvantage for that time. The number of people getting into the pitch or its surrounds.over the past week has to be dealt with. Football is lucky that no one has sustained a bad injury from them. The current situation with stabbings, which are not football-related, has led to pundits and journalists putting the two together and wondering what might happen if one of the people did have a knife. Two things that football could do to make it better: 1. Players, managers to take responsibility for their actions. Managers should deal with it and give strong directions about what is not acceptable. They won’t do that. What Grealish did when he scored just made the matter worse. Did he get booked for it because I thought refs had been instructed to book players who act in a way that will incite fans? I understand why he did it and know that were a Rovers player to score what was going to be a winner at Ashton Gate they would do similar. All players in derbies would do that. Players and fans in one-Town-2-club matches do want to rub it in, incite, wind up the opposition. But if you seriously want to avoid situations like that then the players and managers need to take the heat out of the situations. It won’t happen and I doubt if many on here would agree with me but if you do what you’ve always done you get what you’ve always got. Unfortunately. 2. What were the stewards doing letting a fan get on the pitch. I go to enough matches to see that there are perimeter stewards who are continually watching the crowd and anyone getting near to climbing over or stepping over the fence should be seen before they get over. But I also know that stewards like talking and standing still, rarely have do I see stewards acting to stop the situation arising. I see lots of action from them when it kicks off it not much to avoid the situation escalating or happening. Here, I can only say what I’ve seen at recent matches. At Pompey it appeared well organised and the fans were segregated and we had stewards looking in our direction for most of the match, can’t say what was happening in the other parts of the ground. But I was also at Plymouth 3 years ago when a steward deliberately incited the fans and at Port Vale where the seating arrangements and stewards actions created the problems. Better stewarding could have avoided all these invasions recently. I know little about Scotland but the problems there appear to be religious and sectarian and might be different to what we have in England. I’m sure someone will put me right. UTG! ps. I’m sorry this post is a bit long but it is a serious issue which requires some thought not just a twitter length soundbite!😉 The problems in Scotland are exactly the same as in England wannabe hero’s high on coke and booze who can’t handle them giving it the bigun for the cameras society rather than footballs problem the only difference in Scotland is you can assault Neil Lennon in front of 1/2 million tv viewers and still get found not guilty 😎☺️ I thought it probably was but never having seen a match in Scotland I don’t like to comment on stuff I’ve not witnessed. UTG! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 15:58:43 GMT
Jailed for 14 weeks. Personally I'd have made him go to every Villa game for 3 seasons out of his own pocket or he goes down for ten years.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Mar 11, 2019 16:03:27 GMT
Paul Mitchell has been jailed for 14 weeks.
He said that he did it for a joke and told officers that Grealish was a nob.
Alas, not much of a defence.
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Post by hungerfordgas on Mar 11, 2019 16:06:52 GMT
I am appalled by the lack of concern shown to those "fans" who seek attention by attacking players! They are marched off by stewards/the law,then held against their will before making an appearance in court. Surely the first port of call from a caring society would be a hospital scanner to see if a brain can be detected?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:10:15 GMT
How does a girl roll around? One of the things about the Women's game is that you don't get that pathetic pretending to be hurt. There's a solution of course. Referees should exercise their duty of care, when a player looks seriously hurt, which a grown Man would need to be to roll around or go down clutching his head, for his own protection, don't allow him to continue. To be fair, when I broke my leg I rolled around slapping the floor like it was going out of business. You must have a high pain threshold because when I snapped my adductor I was in so much pain the last thing I wanted to do was move |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:11:59 GMT
How does a girl roll around? One of the things about the Women's game is that you don't get that pathetic pretending to be hurt. There's a solution of course. Referees should exercise their duty of care, when a player looks seriously hurt, which a grown Man would need to be to roll around or go down clutching his head, for his own protection, don't allow him to continue. An ex rovers player,now no longer with us,once told me that if a player goes down and rolls around there is nothing wrong with him he is play acting,on the other hand if he goes down and stays still then act quickly. Exactly. When that piece of filth James Cotterill broke Sean Rigg's jaw, Sean looked stunned and as I recall leant forwards, then went down onto one knee, when the trainer came on he went down onto his side, he didn't roll around. He had a double fracture of his jaw. Says it all. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:12:51 GMT
To be fair, when I broke my leg I rolled around slapping the floor like it was going out of business. You must have a high pain threshold because when I snapped my adductor I was in so much pain the last thing I wanted to do was move Different reactions. I wanted to get away from my leg  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:17:12 GMT
An ex rovers player,now no longer with us,once told me that if a player goes down and rolls around there is nothing wrong with him he is play acting,on the other hand if he goes down and stays still then act quickly. Exactly. When that piece of filth James Cotterill broke Sean Rigg's jaw, Sean looked stunned and as I recall leant forwards, then went down onto one knee, when the trainer came on he went down onto his side, he didn't roll around. He had a double fracture of his jaw. Says it all. Where as Luke Shaw when he broke his tib and fib rolled about holding his leg, screaming and slapping the floor. It's nonsense to say that people that react to pain in the same way. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:19:00 GMT
You must have a high pain threshold because when I snapped my adductor I was in so much pain the last thing I wanted to do was move Different reactions. I wanted to get away from my leg Odd isn't it. I had a bit of a moment, got up and tried to walk away, fell over, looked down and there was my leg bone sticking out. Didn't feel much at all. It was just a scratch really, but the ref wouldn't have it and insisted I had to go off. It hurt plenty during the recovery though. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:20:48 GMT
Exactly. When that piece of filth James Cotterill broke Sean Rigg's jaw, Sean looked stunned and as I recall leant forwards, then went down onto one knee, when the trainer came on he went down onto his side, he didn't roll around. He had a double fracture of his jaw. Says it all. Where as Luke Shaw when he broke his tib and fib rolled about holding his leg, screaming and slapping the floor. It's nonsense to say that people that react to pain in the same way. Fair enough, but the point is, if you are screaming and rolling around and it's genuine then you aren't fit to continue. If you are screaming and rolling around and aren't injured then you aren't fit to be on the pitch in the first place. |
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Post by thecuregalore94 on Mar 11, 2019 16:25:07 GMT
Actions of the Birmingham fan indefensible and cowardly. If we're honest with ourselves, we've all thought about leaping the barriers and hitting someone in a heat of the moment flash of anger that any sane person wouldn't act on. But it really takes a special kind of immature moron to be bereft of basic self-control and discipline to the extent you actually encroach the pitch and assault someone. Not even taking into the account the smug kisses to his fellow fans applauding him as a hero.
Lifetime banning order and slap on the wrist prison time at the very least. Stupid w⚓ has his face on Sky Sports HD now, wouldn't it be a shame if he gets recognised out and about town by some Villa faithful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:27:23 GMT
Where as Luke Shaw when he broke his tib and fib rolled about holding his leg, screaming and slapping the floor. It's nonsense to say that people that react to pain in the same way. Fair enough, but the point is, if you are screaming and rolling around and it's genuine then you aren't fit to continue. If you are screaming and rolling around and aren't injured then you aren't fit to be on the pitch in the first place. Personally I'd bring in Injury Subs anyway, allows trained medical professionals to make a decision. At the top level, it could even be neutrals. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 18:56:36 GMT
I would guess the majority of stewards are paid minimum wage. Therefore why go the extra mile when you're employers treat you with total disrespect. 'You're' is an abbreviation of 'you are': the apostrophe replaces the dropped 'a' of 'are'. For the second person possessive pronoun, you want 'your'. Don't forget to replace the full stop with a question mark '?' if your sentence is a question. C+, Kegan, don't give up. Also, I agree with your point. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 19:47:50 GMT
I would guess the majority of stewards are paid minimum wage. Therefore why go the extra mile when you're employers treat you with total disrespect. 'You're' is an abbreviation of 'you are': the apostrophe replaces the dropped 'a' of 'are'. For the second person possessive pronoun, you want 'your'. Don't forget to replace the full stop with a question mark '?' if your sentence is a question. C+, Kegan, don't give up. Also, I agree with your point. I think that you are being quite hard on Kegan. At least his post made sense. Many on here are so poorly formed that, although you can have a stab at what the writer was attempting to convey, you can't always be certain. By the standards of this board that effort was worthy of a good, solid B. There won't be many football forums today where people are bitching about correctly forming possessive pronouns. Well done. What should we do tomorrow, possessive apostrophes? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:25:49 GMT
All that moral outrage!! I watched the game. He was fouled in opening 10 and rolled about like a girl. He scored and tactfully jumped into the crowd. He thinks that he is some sort of cult Brummie figure - "the best day of my life". I loved it that it was so disgusting that Sky kept showing the incident, even in slow motion. I laughed at the way that Paul Mitchell blew kisses to the cheering crowd as he left the arena. Thousands were cheering, given the level of hatred. Moral outrage. More moral outrage. Oh no, what a sad day for the "football community". Reality: it was an excess of violent soccer tribalism directed at a twat of a footballer. Ridiculous (circus) behaviour. Nothing should surprise us!!! It was madder in the 70s and 80s, but then we had no social media, pundits galore and radio phone-ins. I'm going to put my head above the parapet here and risk ex-communication by saying that I think the whole thing has been a massive over-reaction. If you read a headline or listened to the radio you would think that Grealish was on life support right now fighting for his life. Yet when you see the actual pictures it's a pretty pathetic attempt at handbags. Worse happens on rugby pitches week in week out. It seems to me this whole incident is symptomatic of a far greater ill in society today and that is the propensity for the professionally offended to get hysterical about something. Twitter and 24 hour news outlets that need to push buttons and generate reactions to justify their existence seem to have inspired the current generation to be on tenterhooks waiting for the next big thing they can get morally indignant about and Sunday was a case in point. You then had a caller on 5 live saying how he would love to take his young daughter to watch a Birmingham match but he can't now, because it isn't safe. If there was a spate of daughter bashing at St Andrews I could see his logic... That isn't to say of course that I condone what happened, the guy is obviously a tool and it was all entirely needless and unjustified. Credit to Grealish too who seems by all accounts to have been a good sport about it and not fuelled it further. I also found it interesting that the guy got a 14 week prison sentence. Would he have got 14 weeks of bird for swinging a pathetic arm at the likes of you and I whilst we were eating a kebab and minding our own business on the city centre on a Saturday night? Course he wouldn't, slap on the wrist and a fine. I only wish we took violence on the streets as seriously as we seem to take violence by supporters on footballers, maybe we might start to win the battle against knife crime. |
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Mar 11, 2019 22:27:45 GMT
They even dragged out Gordon Taylor (PFA Chairman) to condemn and express his concerns.
The best part of it all was the Villa chant after Grealish scored.
"One punch and you f***ed it up".
PT Barnum or should it be PT Brum would have been delighted to stage this, especially the steward who kneed Grealish when he jumped into the crowd and was escorted away by West Kids police.
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Post by Foran for England on Mar 12, 2019 7:24:22 GMT
How does a girl roll around? One of the things about the Women's game is that you don't get that pathetic pretending to be hurt. There's a solution of course. Referees should exercise their duty of care, when a player looks seriously hurt, which a grown Man would need to be to roll around or go down clutching his head, for his own protection, don't allow him to continue.
Yes, that might be a way to go. If it is a genuine injury or the player is genuinely hurt then that is what happens (usually a substitution). Were the refs to do that for players who deliberately act as if they are nearly dead and keep them off the pitch for a period of time it might stop players over reacting. But I guess in those circumstances the argument would be that the perpetrator’s side gets the man advantage for a period of time and the “injured” man’s side get a disadvantage for that time. The number of people getting into the pitch or its surrounds.over the past week has to be dealt with. Football is lucky that no one has sustained a bad injury from them. The current situation with stabbings, which are not football-related, has led to pundits and journalists putting the two together and wondering what might happen if one of the people did have a knife. Two things that football could do to make it better: 1. Players, managers to take responsibility for their actions. Managers should deal with it and give strong directions about what is not acceptable. They won’t do that. What Grealish did when he scored just made the matter worse. Did he get booked for it because I thought refs had been instructed to book players who act in a way that will incite fans? I understand why he did it and know that were a Rovers player to score what was going to be a winner at Ashton Gate they would do similar. All players in derbies would do that. Players and fans in one-Town-2-club matches do want to rub it in, incite, wind up the opposition. But if you seriously want to avoid situations like that then the players and managers need to take the heat out of the situations. It won’t happen and I doubt if many on here would agree with me but if you do what you’ve always done you get what you’ve always got. Unfortunately. 2. What were the stewards doing letting a fan get on the pitch. I go to enough matches to see that there are perimeter stewards who are continually watching the crowd and anyone getting near to climbing over or stepping over the fence should be seen before they get over. But I also know that stewards like talking and standing still, rarely have do I see stewards acting to stop the situation arising. I see lots of action from them when it kicks off it not much to avoid the situation escalating or happening. Here, I can only say what I’ve seen at recent matches. At Pompey it appeared well organised and the fans were segregated and we had stewards looking in our direction for most of the match, can’t say what was happening in the other parts of the ground. But I was also at Plymouth 3 years ago when a steward deliberately incited the fans and at Port Vale where the seating arrangements and stewards actions created the problems. Better stewarding could have avoided all these invasions recently. I know little about Scotland but the problems there appear to be religious and sectarian and might be different to what we have in England. I’m sure someone will put me right. UTG! ps. I’m sorry this post is a bit long but it is a serious issue which requires some thought not just a twitter length soundbite!😉 One option is temporary subs while a player is receiving treatment so there isn't a disadvantage during a legitimate injury? Perhaps becoming a permanent sub if the treatment last longer than a specified time. Edit: should have read the whole thread first, I agree with chewy. |
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
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Post by Igitur on Mar 12, 2019 7:25:45 GMT
All that moral outrage!! I watched the game. He was fouled in opening 10 and rolled about like a girl. He scored and tactfully jumped into the crowd. He thinks that he is some sort of cult Brummie figure - "the best day of my life". I loved it that it was so disgusting that Sky kept showing the incident, even in slow motion. I laughed at the way that Paul Mitchell blew kisses to the cheering crowd as he left the arena. Thousands were cheering, given the level of hatred. Moral outrage. More moral outrage. Oh no, what a sad day for the "football community". Reality: it was an excess of violent soccer tribalism directed at a twat of a footballer. Ridiculous (circus) behaviour. Nothing should surprise us!!! It was madder in the 70s and 80s, but then we had no social media, pundits galore and radio phone-ins. I'm going to put my head above the parapet here and risk ex-communication by saying that I think the whole thing has been a massive over-reaction. If you read a headline or listened to the radio you would think that Grealish was on life support right now fighting for his life. Yet when you see the actual pictures it's a pretty pathetic attempt at handbags. Worse happens on rugby pitches week in week out. It seems to me this whole incident is symptomatic of a far greater ill in society today and that is the propensity for the professionally offended to get hysterical about something. Twitter and 24 hour news outlets that need to push buttons and generate reactions to justify their existence seem to have inspired the current generation to be on tenterhooks waiting for the next big thing they can get morally indignant about and Sunday was a case in point. You then had a caller on 5 live saying how he would love to take his young daughter to watch a Birmingham match but he can't now, because it isn't safe. If there was a spate of daughter bashing at St Andrews I could see his logic... That isn't to say of course that I condone what happened, the guy is obviously a tool and it was all entirely needless and unjustified. Credit to Grealish too who seems by all accounts to have been a good sport about it and not fuelled it further. I also found it interesting that the guy got a 14 week prison sentence. Would he have got 14 weeks of bird for swinging a pathetic arm at the likes of you and I whilst we were eating a kebab and minding our own business on the city centre on a Saturday night? Course he wouldn't, slap on the wrist and a fine. I only wish we took violence on the streets as seriously as we seem to take violence by supporters on footballers, maybe we might start to win the battle against knife crime. Can see your argument, but don't forget football is run by clowns and so talk of points deduction or netting or closing terraces are the typical reactions as a result of one person's action and incompetent stewards. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 9:33:00 GMT
The problem with these sorts of things is there are no hard and fast rules. After the Gavin Ward incident we were given a £10,000 fine and one point deduction suspended for a year. What needs to be brought in is a clear set of rules setting about what incidents lead to what punishments for football clubs. The best idea I could think of would be a tally system with demerit points for each incident. Speaking purely on English football the Grealish and Smalling incidents could be worth 5 demerit points, where as the Blackpool pitch invasion worth 1 demerit points. Then over a certain period of time if you breach a certain demerit point total then you'll know exactly the punishment coming your way. With the Grealish incident I've seen opinions from a ten point deduction to just writing it off as an individual. If there's a system in place that everyone knows then there can be no quibbles. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 10:42:41 GMT
Exactly. When that piece of filth James Cotterill broke Sean Rigg's jaw, Sean looked stunned and as I recall leant forwards, then went down onto one knee, when the trainer came on he went down onto his side, he didn't roll around. He had a double fracture of his jaw. Says it all. Where as Luke Shaw when he broke his tib and fib rolled about holding his leg, screaming and slapping the floor. It's nonsense to say that people that react to pain in the same way. Maybe I over egged it a bit but when you look at modern players they hit the deck as though shot by a sniper roll around in agony then 30 seconds later running like Usain bolt.no one recovers from the injury they areally pretending to have that quickly. It's about time referees were told to clamp down on this sort of play acting like if they do as I just mentioned stop the game give a free kick to the opposition and book the offender. |
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