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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 30, 2018 11:21:45 GMT
I seen Timmy Mallet at manor ground once. Think we all deserve medals as no one t w a t t e d him as he walked by...
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 11:32:56 GMT
Why are you doing this? The image clearly shows mass disorder. That's why football supporters like me, who don't sing childish tribal songs, who don't want to fight anybody, who don't arrive at games with a belly full of beer, have to put up with heavy handed Police tactics. What do you think would happen if there was no Police presence? Sure, we can have a discussion about the conduct of Rugby supporters as well, not a problem. But the problem isn't the sport itself, it's the pathetic way that society glorifies consumption of alcohol, it's there in the piece you link to, alcohol related disorder. I would be in favour of an alcohol breath test to gain entry to any sporting event and a ban on selling the stuff inside of stadiums. Your link also demonstrates that what Police are doing at football venues is making the events safer for people like me to attend, good I say. I thank them for it. There's a slightly different problem as well in Australia and NZ apparently (Maybe our contributor from NZ can confirm?), not so much in the stadiums, but people attend, drink too much and then try to drive home. Alcohol is a blight on society, that's before we even begin with the health problems it causes. Haha! Coming from someone whom moans about the TG introduction of electronic ticketing, a proposal to introduce breath testing for entry to stadia!? TG would be onto a winner with you, Bambi! Preposterous. If there is a problem, and I can't remember last time there was serious disorder on a multitude scale (trying to keep in proportion) in a stadium, it's been a one off. Trying to keep things in perspective, issues of skirmish, I'm estimating involve probably 1-2% on average, at most. If we have something like 50 odd banning orders atm, our average home attendance is way over 5000. Factor in twice as many, probably being kind, and you have a total over reaction to a problem largely stamped out by authorities. I understand the distaste violence leaves, but to suggest what is in the post I'm replying to is frankly ridiculous and blowing everything out of proportion, imo. It's not my fault that Gorringe bought cheap plastic tat and didn't think through implementation. I never complained about the season cards and cashless turnstiles, it's many years overdue, I've complained bitterly about the pathetic way it's been done. You are an apologist of the worst kind, why does it have to be serious disorder? One person being an arse and gesturing towards opposition supporters is one too many, one arrest is one too many, one chant containing a threat of violence is one too many, it's a game of football for goodness sake, not a war. We all know why there are early kick offs, it's normally so that attendees have less time to consume alcohol prior to the match starting.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 30, 2018 15:08:44 GMT
Haha! Coming from someone whom moans about the TG introduction of electronic ticketing, a proposal to introduce breath testing for entry to stadia!? TG would be onto a winner with you, Bambi! Preposterous. If there is a problem, and I can't remember last time there was serious disorder on a multitude scale (trying to keep in proportion) in a stadium, it's been a one off. Trying to keep things in perspective, issues of skirmish, I'm estimating involve probably 1-2% on average, at most. If we have something like 50 odd banning orders atm, our average home attendance is way over 5000. Factor in twice as many, probably being kind, and you have a total over reaction to a problem largely stamped out by authorities. I understand the distaste violence leaves, but to suggest what is in the post I'm replying to is frankly ridiculous and blowing everything out of proportion, imo. It's not my fault that Gorringe bought cheap plastic tat and didn't think through implementation. I never complained about the season cards and cashless turnstiles, it's many years overdue, I've complained bitterly about the pathetic way it's been done. You are an apologist of the worst kind, why does it have to be serious disorder? One person being an arse and gesturing towards opposition supporters is one too many, one arrest is one too many, one chant containing a threat of violence is one too many, it's a game of football for goodness sake, not a war. We all know why there are early kick offs, it's normally so that attendees have less time to consume alcohol prior to the match starting. With reference to your last paragraph, did it?
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Post by DudeLebowski on Dec 30, 2018 15:30:52 GMT
It's not my fault that Gorringe bought cheap plastic tat and didn't think through implementation. I never complained about the season cards and cashless turnstiles, it's many years overdue, I've complained bitterly about the pathetic way it's been done. You are an apologist of the worst kind, why does it have to be serious disorder? One person being an arse and gesturing towards opposition supporters is one too many, one arrest is one too many, one chant containing a threat of violence is one too many, it's a game of football for goodness sake, not a war. We all know why there are early kick offs, it's normally so that attendees have less time to consume alcohol prior to the match starting. With reference to your last paragraph, did it? Never works. I was on the voddy by 9! Managed not to barge, abuse, attack or threat anyone though. Much to Bamber’s disappointment, not quite fitting the hooligan profile.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Dec 30, 2018 16:21:57 GMT
Oxford United Why a 1pm KO ? …Because when we played each other earlier this season, at The Mem, a group from Oxford were causing trouble both before and after the game. On the way to the game we almost walked into a skirmish on Gloucester Road, going up Ashley Down Road, and had to take a detour. After the game Oxford fans old, bald, fat, morons, were running waddling down Glos Road, and then entered chair hurling contests at places like the usually laid-back Tinto Lounge. And then continued to keep A&S P busy into the evening, being naughty in the pubs around the arches. This.
I was unforutnate to get caught up in that nonsense as I met a mate at Grounded before the game (I rarely go anywhere before a game normally) which due to blind bad luck happened to be the place the Oxford meatheads decamped into having been thrown out of the pub. I then had the unpleasant experience of being hemmed in there by the police while a group of our homegrown tosspots walked down the steet throwing bottles and stones and spitting at them and the police wouldn't let us pass to get out (not to mention the slighty surreal dark and pathetic comedy of it kicking off at a place like Grounded!). When we managed to finally convince the police to let us out to the ground there was a 20 man brawl going on by the ticket queue. Worst trouble I've seen outside a ground in about 20 years. A plague on all their houses (including the police on this occasion - who were inept at dealing with people who were obviously being indiscriminantly violent to bystanders). Not at all surprised this game was given an early kick off.
This wasn't people losing their s**t because they'd drunk too much either. This was clearly old school co-ordinated violence by people who wanted a punchup. I'm convinced there were many there who had no interest in either team. It was flat out nasty and all that bollocks about 'honour among hooligans' only attacking other protagonists etc. can go to hell too. People on both sides were intimidating and attacking anyone in their path that day irrespective of whether they were going to the game or not. It was horrible - a proper throwback.
Chewie - you are right that football fans get treated far worse than those attending other sports (particularly when it comes to drink related incidents - of which I've honestly seen much worse at cricket matches over the years where people can drink all day) and a lot of that is based on snobbery and willful misunderstanding by those in authority who are willing to turn a blind eye to certain groups behaving appallingly but not others. On the other hand though incidents like that Oxford game show that football is still being targetted by people whose primary interest is in using the tribal nature of football as an excuse to indulge in violence. As a result I wouldn't conflate the drinking issue with the organised violence issue - they're separate- with the former happening at most spectator sports, of which football is far from the worst offender, while the latter sadly remains more or less unique to football in this country and something most fans turn a blind eye to in truth with a banal 'their lot were worse than our lot' attitude.
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Post by Curly Wurly on Dec 30, 2018 20:45:11 GMT
Because I wasn't replying to that point. Huge mistakes were made that day that. The cover up was a disgrace. The length of time it's taken to admit publicly what actually happened a disgrace also. No problem saying so, anyone who looks at the evidence would agree. and police and lawmakers decisions ever since have been based on that. Worth noting how much these lies cost football clubs and still allow the police to make money out of them. May as well change the kick off to 1am, they just don’t want anyone attending. 100% agree with you. The state, in the form of the government, police and judiciary, egged on by the fraudulent press, conspired to vilify an entire group of people in this country as a way of covering up their own criminal incompetency. Even now, when the truth is emerging, the smear campaigns remain part of our national psyche.
Still, I wasn't that upset with the 1pm kick off.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 22:22:19 GMT
It's not my fault that Gorringe bought cheap plastic tat and didn't think through implementation. I never complained about the season cards and cashless turnstiles, it's many years overdue, I've complained bitterly about the pathetic way it's been done. You are an apologist of the worst kind, why does it have to be serious disorder? One person being an arse and gesturing towards opposition supporters is one too many, one arrest is one too many, one chant containing a threat of violence is one too many, it's a game of football for goodness sake, not a war. We all know why there are early kick offs, it's normally so that attendees have less time to consume alcohol prior to the match starting. With reference to your last paragraph, did it? Glad to have helped you understand, all part of the service as we strive towards a more civil society. Sincerely, B Gasgroin Temperance Society activist, 19th century Britain.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 31, 2018 0:06:53 GMT
With reference to your last paragraph, did it? Glad to have helped you understand, all part of the service as we strive towards a more civil society. Sincerely, B Gasgroin Temperance Society activist, 19th century Britain. I always understood. I think. Still unanswered question, because it clearly very did not work? And won't. Ever. You can't control a society, even as activist. It has to be free and allowed to express itself. Sincerely, Mr O2. Society Activist. Modern world. Reality BS7.
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danrory
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 171
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Post by danrory on Dec 31, 2018 11:09:23 GMT
I agree with a proposal put on her previously: Give all clubs 3 years to turn their stadiums into non-segregated arenas. If they fail to comply and produce peaceful places to watch the game, shut them down. Go to any rugby match- no segregation- no bother- no police- no problem
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 12:54:48 GMT
Glad to have helped you understand, all part of the service as we strive towards a more civil society. Sincerely, B Gasgroin Temperance Society activist, 19th century Britain. I always understood. I think. Still unanswered question, because it clearly very did not work? And won't. Ever. You can't control a society, even as activist. It has to be free and allowed to express itself. Sincerely, Mr O2. Society Activist. Modern world. Reality BS7. So you are an anarchist? I deal in reality as well, people don't like having the drinking culture in this country criticised, but it's all very childish, selfish and massively destructive on many levels. Cost to the NHS of alcohol is circa £3.5 bn P/A. Males are twice as likely to have alcohol related liver failure as females. This is actually a good question that resources should be allocated to rather than having to pay Police officers to separate groups of rival supporters at sporting events. What's happening in society which results in males being twice as likely to have limited life expectancy due to just this 1 disease? Around 65% of hospital admissions related to alcohol are male patients, that figure rises to over 70% if you look at just mental health issues attributable to alcohol. Around 1,000,000 (1 million) hospital admissions a year directly related to alcohol. These monetary figures are easy to find, harder to find are nett figures, so adjusted for tax paid by businesses involved in the supply of alcohol. But still, the numbers get your attention, don't they? It's nothing to do with class or intelligence, I saw the painful demise of one of the great minds of our time, a man born to a ranking military family and who would run rings around public speakers like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris. If Christopher Hitchens became a drunken wreck, it shows that the stuff truly doesn't discriminate. Could we trust our shyster bunch of politicians to do anything sensible with the money saved if alcohol disappeared overnight? Nope, neither red nor blue, both would, to coin a phrase 'p1ss it up against a wall', but that's a different discussion.
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Post by davehuddscousin on Dec 31, 2018 15:12:44 GMT
Over the past few years Rovers often seemed to have drawn the short straw of the 1pm kick off on Boxing Day. But it didn't stop 1500 going to Oxford, and we came back with three points....and it a 3 pm kick off on New Year's Day!
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jan 9, 2019 23:22:46 GMT
Totally agree with Bamber (a first?). Disappointed by the usually rational Chewbacca's stance. I too agree with Bamber. In fact I found it profound, life changing post. So much so I have now decided to clean up my act and give up alcohol. Only till the weekend. And I’ve no intention of giving up Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana and ecstasy too. Nor the bacon butty followed by the cheeseboard. We don’t have to give up all our little vices for January do we? And it’s not that I don’t have a few little issues with Bambers point of view. If violence at football matches is simply down to alcohol consumption on match days, surely preemptive decisions to take golf balls, darts, millwall bricks (all used against us during my time supporting rovers) and which pub to rumble and trash surely has a bit of sober planning in advance, before the alcohol was put in the system? So if not the alcohol, where does it start? I have no intention of getting into a long philosophical discussion, but we don’t and we can’t live in a world founded simply on love and politeness. I won’t mention birds, but they can be angry vicious creatures, but think of yourself a bee, your little empty sack to put the pollen in inbuilt into you, and you scent down there a lovely freshly opened flower, make a bee line for it looking forward to a good, sexy sticky experience inside her, but coming in at 10 o’clock is another bee. You can’t politely say, oh what a fine morning, after you sir. Because he’ll go home with the full sack, and you’ll go home with empty one. In just the same way, down on the waterfront with Marlon Brando you find yourself in a scrum of fifty, with an empty belly and empty bellies at home to feed, the doors going to open any minute and only 6 or 7 are going through, you have got to make sure you are one of them. Just as 6 or 7 will go in, 3 will go go up, 4 down, football cannot be immune from the world of competition and rivalry it is set in. Love, hate, happy, bitter, rivalry’s, we have to embrace it all, with plenty of backbone, stiff upper lip, because we’ve been singing these songs for a thousand years for good reason, the song is our essential nature, freedom beyond any particular place or time, but a price to that freedom.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Jan 9, 2019 23:36:04 GMT
Didn't manage to last til the weekend then.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 23:52:32 GMT
Totally agree with Bamber (a first?). Disappointed by the usually rational Chewbacca's stance. I too agree with Bamber. In fact I found it profound, life changing post. So much so I have now decided to clean up my act and give up alcohol. Only till the weekend. And I’ve no intention of giving up Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana and ecstasy too. Nor the bacon butty followed by the cheeseboard. We don’t have to give up all our little vices for January do we? And it’s not that I don’t have a few little issues with Bambers point of view. If violence at football matches is simply down to alcohol consumption on match days, surely preemptive decisions to take golf balls, darts, millwall bricks (all used against us during my time supporting rovers) and which pub to rumble and trash surely has a bit of sober planning in advance, before the alcohol was put in the system? So if not the alcohol, where does it start? I have no intention of getting into a long philosophical discussion, but we don’t and we can’t live in a world founded simply on love and politeness. I won’t mention birds, but they can be angry vicious creatures, but think of yourself a bee, your little empty sack to put the pollen in inbuilt into you, and you scent down there a lovely freshly opened flower, make a bee line for it looking forward to a good, sexy sticky experience inside her, but coming in at 10 o’clock is another bee. You can’t politely say, oh what a fine morning, after you sir. Because he’ll go home with the full sack, and you’ll go home with empty one. In just the same way, down on the waterfront with Marlon Brando you find yourself in a scrum of fifty, with an empty belly and empty bellies at home to feed, the doors going to open any minute and only 6 or 7 are going through, you have got to make sure you are one of them. Just as 6 or 7 will go in, 3 will go go up, 4 down, football cannot be immune from the world of competition and rivalry it is set in. Love, hate, happy, bitter, rivalry’s, we have to embrace it all, with plenty of backbone, stiff upper lip, because we’ve been singing these songs for a thousand years for good reason, the song is our essential nature, freedom beyond any particular place or time, but a price to that freedom. What a load of nonsense. All apart from the bit where you agreed with me.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 10, 2019 11:08:57 GMT
With reference to your last paragraph, did it? Never works. I was on the voddy by 9! Managed not to barge, abuse, attack or threat anyone though. Much to Bamber’s disappointment, not quite fitting the hooligan profile. Yes, he is generalising quite a lot. I do agree that most of any trouble, comes from the older lot but it’s now nothing like it was. Whether we like it or not, football is extremely tribal in nature. Some take that too far. I fully admit to being involved, when younger and I should feel ashamed but most of it was in self defence, for me in anycase. I’m now the one of very few that pulls people up if they abuse or act in a bad manner. Seems not many of us around. This could be self policed, only if the majority said something and didn’t allow it to continue. As a side note, I myself was pulled up by one of our more infamous fans, one who is well known within the group who used to be involved and it was a valuable lesson
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 10, 2019 18:32:15 GMT
I always understood. I think. Still unanswered question, because it clearly very did not work? And won't. Ever. You can't control a society, even as activist. It has to be free and allowed to express itself. Sincerely, Mr O2. Society Activist. Modern world. Reality BS7. So you are an anarchist? I deal in reality as well, people don't like having the drinking culture in this country criticised, but it's all very childish, selfish and massively destructive on many levels. Cost to the NHS of alcohol is circa £3.5 bn P/A. Males are twice as likely to have alcohol related liver failure as females. This is actually a good question that resources should be allocated to rather than having to pay Police officers to separate groups of rival supporters at sporting events. What's happening in society which results in males being twice as likely to have limited life expectancy due to just this 1 disease? Around 65% of hospital admissions related to alcohol are male patients, that figure rises to over 70% if you look at just mental health issues attributable to alcohol. Around 1,000,000 (1 million) hospital admissions a year directly related to alcohol. These monetary figures are easy to find, harder to find are nett figures, so adjusted for tax paid by businesses involved in the supply of alcohol. But still, the numbers get your attention, don't they? It's nothing to do with class or intelligence, I saw the painful demise of one of the great minds of our time, a man born to a ranking military family and who would run rings around public speakers like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris. If Christopher Hitchens became a drunken wreck, it shows that the stuff truly doesn't discriminate. Could we trust our shyster bunch of politicians to do anything sensible with the money saved if alcohol disappeared overnight? Nope, neither red nor blue, both would, to coin a phrase 'p1ss it up against a wall', but that's a different discussion. We have enough of a nanny state as it is thanks. You do it your way, that’s fine but there are plenty of us that can and do drink sensibly. You really have an awfully slanted view of alcohol. Why not start on chem trails, fluoride and the plethora of meds , used in antidepressants, to control us ?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 10, 2019 18:34:25 GMT
Totally agree with Bamber (a first?). Disappointed by the usually rational Chewbacca's stance. I too agree with Bamber. In fact I found it profound, life changing post. So much so I have now decided to clean up my act and give up alcohol. Only till the weekend. And I’ve no intention of giving up Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana and ecstasy too. Nor the bacon butty followed by the cheeseboard. We don’t have to give up all our little vices for January do we? And it’s not that I don’t have a few little issues with Bambers point of view. If violence at football matches is simply down to alcohol consumption on match days, surely preemptive decisions to take golf balls, darts, millwall bricks (all used against us during my time supporting rovers) and which pub to rumble and trash surely has a bit of sober planning in advance, before the alcohol was put in the system? So if not the alcohol, where does it start? I have no intention of getting into a long philosophical discussion, but we don’t and we can’t live in a world founded simply on love and politeness. I won’t mention birds, but they can be angry vicious creatures, but think of yourself a bee, your little empty sack to put the pollen in inbuilt into you, and you scent down there a lovely freshly opened flower, make a bee line for it looking forward to a good, sexy sticky experience inside her, but coming in at 10 o’clock is another bee. You can’t politely say, oh what a fine morning, after you sir. Because he’ll go home with the full sack, and you’ll go home with empty one. In just the same way, down on the waterfront with Marlon Brando you find yourself in a scrum of fifty, with an empty belly and empty bellies at home to feed, the doors going to open any minute and only 6 or 7 are going through, you have got to make sure you are one of them. Just as 6 or 7 will go in, 3 will go go up, 4 down, football cannot be immune from the world of competition and rivalry it is set in. Love, hate, happy, bitter, rivalry’s, we have to embrace it all, with plenty of backbone, stiff upper lip, because we’ve been singing these songs for a thousand years for good reason, the song is our essential nature, freedom beyond any particular place or time, but a price to that freedom. Nice one 👍🏻
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,421
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Post by trymer on Jan 10, 2019 20:02:54 GMT
Tribalism has been mentioned and Oxford,reminded me of the Zoologist and (former ?) Oxford Utd board member Desmond Morris who wrote a book called 'The Soccer Tribe' very interesting it is too. Oxford had hooligans in the past,I remember about 1970(ish) some of the city lads at school saying that a big mob of Oxford hoolies wearing Yellow hard hats had taken the East end,I went to Oxford with Rovers in 75 ? and there was lots of trouble as the London road end was split between home and away supporters with only one way in !
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 20:47:56 GMT
So you are an anarchist? I deal in reality as well, people don't like having the drinking culture in this country criticised, but it's all very childish, selfish and massively destructive on many levels. Cost to the NHS of alcohol is circa £3.5 bn P/A. Males are twice as likely to have alcohol related liver failure as females. This is actually a good question that resources should be allocated to rather than having to pay Police officers to separate groups of rival supporters at sporting events. What's happening in society which results in males being twice as likely to have limited life expectancy due to just this 1 disease? Around 65% of hospital admissions related to alcohol are male patients, that figure rises to over 70% if you look at just mental health issues attributable to alcohol. Around 1,000,000 (1 million) hospital admissions a year directly related to alcohol. These monetary figures are easy to find, harder to find are nett figures, so adjusted for tax paid by businesses involved in the supply of alcohol. But still, the numbers get your attention, don't they? It's nothing to do with class or intelligence, I saw the painful demise of one of the great minds of our time, a man born to a ranking military family and who would run rings around public speakers like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris. If Christopher Hitchens became a drunken wreck, it shows that the stuff truly doesn't discriminate. Could we trust our shyster bunch of politicians to do anything sensible with the money saved if alcohol disappeared overnight? Nope, neither red nor blue, both would, to coin a phrase 'p1ss it up against a wall', but that's a different discussion. We have enough of a nanny state as it is thanks. You do it your way, that’s fine but there are plenty of us that can and do drink sensibly. You really have an awfully slanted view of alcohol. Why not start on chem trails, fluoride and the plethora of meds , used in antidepressants, to control us ? Because I have no evidence for chemtrails, or that 911 was an inside job, or any of that other batsh1t crazy conspiracy stuff, but there's plenty of evidence that alcohol is harmful. As long as the streets are more dangerous because of drunks, as long as the roads are more dangerous because of drunks, I'll keep complaining. Obviously people can't be trusted to act responsibly. On average, in this country, every 3 days 2 people die on our roads in accidents where the driver responsible is over the drink drive limit. Every year many thousands are injured by drunk drivers. Of course that's never the person you are talking to, they are sensible and would never drive if they were unfit, it's always some other idiot.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 12, 2019 14:10:44 GMT
Tribalism has been mentioned and Oxford,reminded me of the Zoologist and (former ?) Oxford Utd board member Desmond Morris who wrote a book called 'The Soccer Tribe' very interesting it is too. Oxford had hooligans in the past,I remember about 1970(ish) some of the city lads at school saying that a big mob of Oxford hoolies wearing Yellow hard hats had taken the East end,I went to Oxford with Rovers in 75 ? and there was lots of trouble as the London road end was split between home and away supporters with only one way in ! I find all of his books fascinating as I studied human behaviourism for 18 months. From Pavlovs dogs and conditioning to the programming and mapping of certain brain areas. Whether we like it or not we still have primate, reptilian and mammalian layers. I guess that primitive part has just been suppressed as we have evolved or been conditioned. Thanks for the recommendation mate. Will definitely be buying tha, if it’s still available. Nice one
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