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Post by Bernard Briggs on Feb 14, 2018 16:38:12 GMT
Thanks to irishrover I will not need to point out that you have not replied/told me the simple thing I wanted to know. As you do not believe the decision was not made in error, I am sure that you, as a football cognoscente, will have reported your belief to the relevant authorities. Can you confirm that you have done so, please, Bamber? Thank you. Why would I report anything to the football authorities, each match has an assessor who will report on the performance of the officials. Unless of course you are suggesting that the assessor may not be wholly objective and honest and that letters from supporters on the terraces may hold some sway at FA HQ? I can assure everyone on here, that letters from supporters on the terraces, do not hold any sway at FA HQ. I have spent the last 40 years writing such letters to the FA, ( sometimes two or three per game ) and never once, has a decision been overturned as a result of this. F**k knows what it`s cost me in stamps.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,394
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Post by harrybuckle on Feb 14, 2018 16:49:19 GMT
Why would I report anything to the football authorities, each match has an assessor who will report on the performance of the officials. Unless of course you are suggesting that the assessor may not be wholly objective and honest and that letters from supporters on the terraces may hold some sway at FA HQ? I can assure everyone on here, that letters from supporters on the terraces, do not hold any sway at FA HQ. I have spent the last 40 years writing such letters to the FA, ( sometimes two or three per game ) and never once, has a decision been overturned as a result of this. F**k knows what it`s cost me in stamps. maybe cheaper to start sending emails ! Do keep trying as you may get a response
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Post by Colyton Gas. on Feb 14, 2018 16:49:44 GMT
Time to give up on Nichols and give Telford a chance.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 18:00:03 GMT
Why would I report anything to the football authorities, each match has an assessor who will report on the performance of the officials. Unless of course you are suggesting that the assessor may not be wholly objective and honest and that letters from supporters on the terraces may hold some sway at FA HQ? I can assure everyone on here, that letters from supporters on the terraces, do not hold any sway at FA HQ. I have spent the last 40 years writing such letters to the FA, ( sometimes two or three per game ) and never once, has a decision been overturned as a result of this. F**k knows what it`s cost me in stamps. You are a numpty. I just draw a huge male member on an envelope, write Greg Clarke London, next to it and ram it in a letterbox, not spent a penny on stamps. My method has been every bit as effective as yours.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,090
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Post by bloogas on Feb 14, 2018 20:21:09 GMT
"DC well we won again so he got it right...in the end. Do wish he would approach the game against lesser opposition with a more attacking line up but he is the Manager" didn't he play two upfront with 'in theory' Sinclair just behind them to hassle them high up the pitch. To me that is an attacking line up isn't it All a matter of opinion, Pete. See Eisenhower & Montgomery, WW2,invasion of Europe. Whatever - we ought to go gung ho - oh,sorry,.....
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,293
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Post by Igitur on Feb 15, 2018 9:45:28 GMT
DC in the BP, as he stated he should for players working hard, defended Tom Nichols' record of 2 goals, describing him as an "out-and-out striker" and it was the 4-3-3 system he uses which disadvantages TN. I'm not so sure myself, but will go with DC, but one thing in the BP article, which had already struck me for the first goal, is whether TN's header was a flick on and so an assist or an attempted shot - I think it was a 'shot'.
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GasMacc1
Les Bradd
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Post by GasMacc1 on Feb 15, 2018 10:05:37 GMT
... one thing in the BP article, which had already struck me for the first goal, is whether TN's header was a flick on and so an assist or an attempted shot - I think it was a 'shot'. The first-time, perfectly-weighted pass into space from Chris Lines out to the left wing was exquisite. Lee Brown's cross on the run into the box was exquisite. Liam Sercombe's technique in meeting the high-bounce of the ball and directing it out of reach of the goalie (with just enough power to beat the flailing defender on the line) was exquisite. So I'm going to say Tom Nichols' flick-on was exquisite. (At the game, though, I thought it was a woeful attempt to score!).
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Feb 15, 2018 10:25:26 GMT
DC in the BP, as he stated he should for players working hard, defended Tom Nichols' record of 2 goals, describing him as an "out-and-out striker" and it was the 4-3-3 system he uses which disadvantages TN. I'm not so sure myself, but will go with DC, but one thing in the BP article, which had already struck me for the first goal, is whether TN's header was a flick on and so an assist or an attempted shot - I think it was a 'shot'. Just man management by DC isnt it
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,392
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 15, 2018 13:25:25 GMT
Same as everyone else, I understand what handball is. Sometimes people jump to odd arguments, does this mean that, for example's sake, if you buy a car and it breaks down, unless you are a time served mechanic, you shouldn't complain to the supplying dealer, you should just shrug your shoulders, push it into a ditch and go buy another one? Or if you order steak in a restaurant and a poached egg is served you shouldn't complain unless you have worked on a cattle farm? Very strange argument you've put forward there dido. I do think it is reasonable to suggest that we have a certain duty of fairness and empathy to the individual doing it though. My views definitely changed when I tried refereeing once at a ludicrously low standard of completely uncompetitive football, realised how bloody hard it was, how little time you have to make decision, how much ridiculous and undeserved s*** you get from everyone involved for doing. Coupled with the fact that I've recently discovered how utterly pisspoor referees pay and conditions are I decided to modify my criticism somewhat. I'm a pretty good cricket umpire and many people would argue that is a much more complicated game to interpret than football. But I disagree - for all it's complexity the laws of cricket tend to be cut and dry. It's not until you ref a football match that you realise how much unavoidable interpretation is involved which is what makes football quite different to other sports I think and bloody difficult. Very little is hard and fast - most is based on a reading of the game and the context and players will always be able to come up with a plausible argument either for or against nearly any decision. It's a sort of contact sport but not really and that's difficult. If my car breaks down -it breaks down, that's not really a relative concept so I have a valid complaint. Taste might be more subjective - ie. I might complain to a chef that my food tastes foul and they may just tell to the eff off and that I have no taste. In the case of a refereeing decision in football - 2 people (or more likely 2 fanbases) can normally look at a decision and come to completely different views on it and be completely convinced they're right. In theory the game is codified - in reality it isn't and that's part of what makes it good but also bloody difficult to officiate. I feel for referees who really are on a loser whichever decision they make. Watching Bournemouth as a ST holder and a neutral for so long now and watching Rovers as a fan I reckon it’s about the context you watch a game as to your opinion of the refereeing that’s taking place. Watching Bournemouth I have some real good arguments with friends around me about the quality of the referee. Even the most blatant foul by Bournemouth players are answered by the claim that the opposition player has taken a dive / fallen over / cheated. Every 50/50 challenge is a foul if the opposition win it or fair if Bournemouth win it. I have a few around me who say each week that this ref is the worst I’ve ever seen!! They see what they want to see not what has happened on most occasions, as I do probably when I watch Rovers. I watch those matches as a neutral and see the refs doing a pretty good job. I always look at big decisions that potentially change the result and see very few of those. The Bournemouth equaliser against West Ham in the last minute through a hand ball was one, in Bournemouth’s favour. Watching at Rovers I’m a fan and am probably like the ones at Bournemouth who I disagree with! On Tuesday night he got one decision very wrong imo, their first goal which in the end didn’t matter. But as a fan I have a completely different attitude to decisions made and I really need to take 24 hours and reflect on the referee before making a judgement, I am too emotionally involved. Context is all!! UTG!
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Feb 15, 2018 13:50:07 GMT
I do think it is reasonable to suggest that we have a certain duty of fairness and empathy to the individual doing it though. My views definitely changed when I tried refereeing once at a ludicrously low standard of completely uncompetitive football, realised how bloody hard it was, how little time you have to make decision, how much ridiculous and undeserved s*** you get from everyone involved for doing. Coupled with the fact that I've recently discovered how utterly pisspoor referees pay and conditions are I decided to modify my criticism somewhat. I'm a pretty good cricket umpire and many people would argue that is a much more complicated game to interpret than football. But I disagree - for all it's complexity the laws of cricket tend to be cut and dry. It's not until you ref a football match that you realise how much unavoidable interpretation is involved which is what makes football quite different to other sports I think and bloody difficult. Very little is hard and fast - most is based on a reading of the game and the context and players will always be able to come up with a plausible argument either for or against nearly any decision. It's a sort of contact sport but not really and that's difficult. If my car breaks down -it breaks down, that's not really a relative concept so I have a valid complaint. Taste might be more subjective - ie. I might complain to a chef that my food tastes foul and they may just tell to the eff off and that I have no taste. In the case of a refereeing decision in football - 2 people (or more likely 2 fanbases) can normally look at a decision and come to completely different views on it and be completely convinced they're right. In theory the game is codified - in reality it isn't and that's part of what makes it good but also bloody difficult to officiate. I feel for referees who really are on a loser whichever decision they make. Watching Bournemouth as a ST holder and a neutral for so long now and watching Rovers as a fan I reckon it’s about the context you watch a game as to your opinion of the refereeing that’s taking place. Watching Bournemouth I have some real good arguments with friends around me about the quality of the referee. Even the most blatant foul by Bournemouth players are answered by the claim that the opposition player has taken a dive / fallen over / cheated. Every 50/50 challenge is a foul if the opposition win it or fair if Bournemouth win it. I have a few around me who say each week that this ref is the worst I’ve ever seen!! They see what they want to see not what has happened on most occasions, as I do probably when I watch Rovers. I watch those matches as a neutral and see the refs doing a pretty good job. I always look at big decisions that potentially change the result and see very few of those. The Bournemouth equaliser against West Ham in the last minute through a hand ball was one, in Bournemouth’s favour. Watching at Rovers I’m a fan and am probably like the ones at Bournemouth who I disagree with! On Tuesday night he got one decision very wrong imo, their first goal which in the end didn’t matter. But as a fan I have a completely different attitude to decisions made and I really need to take 24 hours and reflect on the referee before making a judgement, I am too emotionally involved. Context is all!! UTG! Yeah - it is true that as fans we are terrible judges of referees because we are not really looking for a referee to be fair not matter what we like to tell ourselves; we are looking for them to make decisions in our favour which is clearly not the same thing. You might go to a game and see 2 penalties and 2 sendings off against your team - they may all be justified and blatent but you're very unlikely to come away saying 'ref had a good game today - got all the big decisions right'! Having said all that it certainly looked like blatant handball to me on the film.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Feb 15, 2018 14:30:02 GMT
Clearly controlled the ball with his arm and the ref's position shows he's looking directly at it, or so you'd hope!
Crazy decision.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Posts: 3,392
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 15, 2018 18:50:26 GMT
Yes we all seem to agree that it was a poor decision, the hand ball / first goal. But I think it’s harsh to accuse the referee of deliberately cheating or whatever. He got it wrong but I’m assuming the ref saw it as more ball to hand rather than hand to ball. Let’s face it we see these situations every week either live or on MOTD and the discussion is usually about whether it is deliberate or accidental. I think the ref got that decision wrong on Tuesday night but I saw several Rovers and Rochdale players make mistakes which gave goals away. Mistakes happen but pretty sure that no mistakes made by referees are deliberate. If they are we might as well give watching and competing. UTG!
ps It would be interesting to know what he would have given for Bradford’s penalty when Ollie C fell and handled. I thought it was accidental but understand why it was given. On Tuesday I thought it was deliberate and the ball travelled a long way to hit his hand. Two bad decisions for us, yet we won both matches. Let’s hope we get a couple in our favour next!
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,090
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Post by bloogas on Feb 18, 2018 18:17:51 GMT
Does this afternoon's result against Spurs put ours into perspective for those who thought we were lucky?
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Post by The Concept on Feb 21, 2018 18:52:46 GMT
"DC well we won again so he got it right...in the end. Do wish he would approach the game against lesser opposition with a more attacking line up but he is the Manager" didn't he play two upfront with 'in theory' Sinclair just behind them to hassle them high up the pitch. To me that is an attacking line up isn't it Bizarrely he selected a side that began with us playing with 5 at the back, Sincs and Browner as wing backs. That lasted about 15 mins, when he reverted to back 4 and pushed Sincs forward. I was watching the warm up when the defenders get in a line and balls are thrown for defensive headers, I couldn't understand why Sincs was there along with the other 4 and was very surprised when we kicked off with the back 5. Yes, I noticed that too. Although I thought Sincs as right wing-back was abandoned sooner than that - seemed like 5 mins. We just couldn't get our foot on the ball. Even after we changed the formation they still passed rings round us at times. Perhaps the change was better as the players were more used to it, stay in the game and gradually get a foothold.
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