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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 10:42:13 GMT
The only difference being is that many of the advantages gained you mention are , ahem, legal. Legality and morality have never really been bedfellows. Shades of grey on "legality" there Rex, but morality is rarely a defining feature when money enters the equation. Oxfam anyone? Anyone who believes the money they give to charity is all reaching it's target & being spent in a 'morally' acceptable way is a complete f**king idiot.
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 12, 2018 10:52:17 GMT
Nail on head Rex. It's easier to hide or has just become accepted in other industries. NHS paying far too much for drugs. What is the price of petrol today and why? Should agents in football receive fees (should managers receive bungs)? How much do politicians receive and what do they do for the company they represent as a Director? The list is never-ending. If you haven't already, read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, that'll give some insight into how the drugs industry works. Yes they are pretending to be moral by applying rules to regulate actions surrounding a sport that sees endless animals destroyed in the name of entertainment. Why not show the animals on TV laying there with their cannons shattered? Happens every day. You are going into a different aspect of Horse Racing there. I'm discussing betting in Horse Racing here which is where the post, sort of, started?
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Post by fanatical on Feb 12, 2018 11:09:24 GMT
All seems a bit cloak and dagger to me and I don't pretend to fully understand it. I accept that the bet wasn't directly with a high street bookmaker, but the whole thing is a bit odd if you ask me. If I understand correctly, the previous largest bet was £2000, that had been going on for a long time, then you can just lump £40k down on a horse to 'not win' and that bet gets accepted? Sounds like not only is the industry immoral in terms of animal welfare but the betting structure almost invites punters to be 'creative'? As I said, the whole thing stinks, top to bottom, we would be better off without it. Let's imagine I want to place a £8k bet on a horse to win a race at 5/1 so I offer that on an exchange. Somebody has to 'accept' the bet and put up £40k to 'lay' the bet. Other people want to entice people to offer £8k for a horse to win a race because they think it won't win and so they offer better odds than bookmakers are offering (perhaps the 5/1 shot is 3/1 in the regular bookies) in an attempt to win their stake. So yes in effect they are gambling £40k on a horse not winning if laying an £8k bet at 5/1. Betfair is a platform (exchange) that brings punters together to bet and lay as they wish. Not to everyone's taste but perfectly legitimate. In this case, Mr Clement had inside information that the horse would not win (because it's participation in the race was fixed) and so knew it was safe to "lay" the bet and pocket the £8k, and so he asked his friend Mr Turl to a) lend him £40k and b) let him know his Betfair password. Mr Turl's motivation for doing so is none of my business. Perhaps such transactions are "buyer beware" and not illegal and that's why it's not a criminal case, I don't know. But it is against the BHA rules, which is why there were bans and fined issued. A fair commentary on what may have happened. Many people have put 'a bet on for me' which appears to be the case. Also as most owners will testify 99% of the time your horse loses (also the experience of most punters!!) Certainly that was my experience! However, as an owner, trainer or Jockey it is quite wrong to bet on your horse or pass on information if you know it has no chance of winning. Something the BHA (ruling body) take seriously. My take on the football authorities position on the Mike Turl charge is that it is rather silly considering they allow alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams - and many of these in the biggest teams in our country. I wonder about the suitability of the FA chiefs themselves.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 11:26:06 GMT
Didn't we wait until the outcome of his trial before releasing him? Could've been didn't commit the time line to my memory but what he was convicted of had no relevance to football. Just like the Plymouth goalie & the West Brom bloke but they are all demonisied for there past actions (as it happens I believe quite rightly). So why would we hold up Mike Turl as some sort of good guy when he has admitted to wrong doing in horse racing? At the very least he a f**king idiot (I do know people who know him personally through local cricket who suggest this isn't the case), I mean who wouldn't smell a rat when some guy says can I use £40k of your money to lay a bet using your account? At worst he is a ........ out to make a quick buck through inside knowledge. A shining paragon of virtue don't you think?
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 12, 2018 11:38:26 GMT
Many people have put 'a bet on for me' which appears to be the case. Also as most owners will testify 99% of the time your horse loses (also the experience of most punters!!) Certainly that was my experience! However, as an owner, trainer or Jockey it is quite wrong to bet on your horse or pass on information if you know it has no chance of winning. Something the BHA (ruling body) take seriously.My take on the football authorities position on the Mike Turl charge is that it is rather silly considering they allow alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams - and many of these in the biggest teams in our country. I wonder about the suitability of the FA chiefs themselves. Totally correct on all counts in my opinion but especially the highlighted ones. The key is to bet when they win.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 12:21:13 GMT
I don't claim to know for sure, but my understanding is that he's not done anything wrong as far as football goes, but his generosity has raised some eyebrows and now his function within the club is being looked at. Let's wait for the outcome before deciding if he's actually done anything wrong. As for the horse racing thing, again, I only know what I've been told, but he seems to likes a flutter and regularly places hefty bets. Of course he gets tips, on one occasion his tip was correct but he had no way of knowing if there was anything sinister going on behind the tip. The daft thing is, he never drew the winnings from his account and by the time he found out that the booky was spitting his dummy Mike had already lost all of the winnings on other bets, so if he's part of some huge race rigging ring they are pretty rubbish at doing it. Neither did David Pipe brought the clubs name into disrepute plus he was crap
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 12:27:45 GMT
brought the clubs name into disrepute plus he was crap And quite rightly sacked for his actions away from football. Being crap though has never been an impediment to being employed by Bristol Rovers and he was far from the crappiest player ever to be employed by us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 12:42:20 GMT
in the top 2 id say, him or andy spring for me, hang on ive forgotten that short black bloke putting the ball over the bar from a foot 2001 ish
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Feb 12, 2018 12:57:48 GMT
brought the clubs name into disrepute plus he was crap And quite rightly sacked for his actions away from football. Being crap though has never been an impediment to being employed by Bristol Rovers and he was far from the crappiest player ever to be employed by us.Pipe really did divide opinion didn't he? I thought he was an okay player for us.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 13:03:14 GMT
in the top 2 id say, him or andy spring for me, hang on ive forgotten that short black bloke putting the ball over the bar from a foot 2001 ish Alvin Bubb? If Pipe's in your worst 2 then thankfully you've forgotten a whole heap of appallingly bad players, Pipe literally only stands out because of his conviction (possibly why you remember Andy Spring as well).
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 12, 2018 13:04:06 GMT
And quite rightly sacked for his actions away from football. Being crap though has never been an impediment to being employed by Bristol Rovers and he was far from the crappiest player ever to be employed by us.Pipe really did divide opinion didn't he? I thought he was an okay player for us. Gave 100% and loved a tackle which really sparked the team (and the crowd) on occasions. A definite yes from me, as far as the football goes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 13:06:54 GMT
If you haven't already, read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, that'll give some insight into how the drugs industry works. Yes they are pretending to be moral by applying rules to regulate actions surrounding a sport that sees endless animals destroyed in the name of entertainment. Why not show the animals on TV laying there with their cannons shattered? Happens every day. You are going into a different aspect of Horse Racing there. I'm discussing betting in Horse Racing here which is where the post, sort of, started? But without the event and ensuing carnage, and the baying crowd, there wouldn't be the gambling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 13:11:12 GMT
Didn't we wait until the outcome of his trial before releasing him? Could've been didn't commit the time line to my memory but what he was convicted of had no relevance to football. Just like the Plymouth goalie & the West Brom bloke but they are all demonisied for there past actions (as it happens I believe quite rightly). So why would we hold up Mike Turl as some sort of good guy when he has admitted to wrong doing in horse racing? At the very least he a fing idiot (I do know people who know him personally through local cricket who suggest this isn't the case), I mean who wouldn't smell a rat when some guy says can I use £40k of your money to lay a bet using your account? At worst he is a ........ out to make a quick buck through inside knowledge. A shining paragon of virtue don't you think? The whole thing sounds like punters trying to take advantage of knowledge, but as I said yesterday, do you believe that bookmakers share their inside knowledge and that all odds accurately reflect the likely outcome of an event? Based on what I've read here I would say that punters and bookies deserve each other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 13:33:04 GMT
My take on the football authorities position on the Mike Turl charge is that it is rather silly considering they allow alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams - and many of these in the biggest teams in our country. Read more: gasheads.org/thread/7273/mike-turl?page=2#ixzz56tthuVylThis. 100%
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 13:48:57 GMT
My take on the football authorities position on the Mike Turl charge is that it is rather silly considering they allow alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams - and many of these in the biggest teams in our country. Read more: gasheads.org/thread/7273/mike-turl?page=2#ixzz56tthuVylThis. 100% It's the modern world it is only wrong if you really, really break the laws or rules. Just a little breach shouldn't matter at all, Google or Amazon not paying their tax is obviously not on the scale of millions of people operating in the black market. It's not what you do but how grossly you do it.
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Post by manchestergas on Feb 12, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
in the top 2 id say, him or andy spring for me, hang on ive forgotten that short black bloke putting the ball over the bar from a foot 2001 ish You all forget Bob Newton. For me the worst player ever to play for Rovers: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Newton_(footballer)
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 14:13:17 GMT
in the top 2 id say, him or andy spring for me, hang on ive forgotten that short black bloke putting the ball over the bar from a foot 2001 ish You all forget Bob Newton. For me the worst player ever to play for Rovers: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Newton_(footballer)The only player I've ever seen take a penalty that stopped short of the goal line without the keeper touching it. An all time legend
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Feb 12, 2018 14:17:16 GMT
"...alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams..." Yeh, let's have home-grown forgers and British tax evaders... 'they're one of our own'. Oligarchy is not a crime, I believe.
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Deleted
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Mike Turl
Feb 12, 2018 15:03:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 15:03:52 GMT
"...alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams..." Yeh, let's have home-grown forgers and British tax evaders... 'they're one of our own'. Oligarchy is not a crime, I believe. No perhaps not. And in a lot of countries taking ownership of public assets by fair means or foul is ok as well. It stinks though none the less.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 15:14:16 GMT
"...alleged foreign forgers, tax evaders, oligarchs and much worse to own and manage our football teams..." Yeh, let's have home-grown forgers and British tax evaders... 'they're one of our own'. Oligarchy is not a crime, I believe. No perhaps not. And in a lot of countries taking ownership of public assets by fair means or foul is ok as well. It stinks though none the less. Yo Dawg, was that you I saw protesting the Hood?
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