Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 19:24:10 GMT
Betfair is an exchange, it pits people who want to bet against people who want to "lay" e.g. bet against. Anyone can take either side. In this case, the jockey advised Mr Clement to lay the specific horse, and Mr Clement used Mr Turl's Betfair account to do that. No bookies involved. I don't think it was the jockey; "exploit inside information from Mr Clutterbuck (the assistant trainer of the horse)" Mike Turl may not have even known where the information came from or that it was in breach of the rules. Agreed. My point is only that pinning this on "bookies" is false. |
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 11, 2018 19:26:16 GMT
I don't think it was the jockey; "exploit inside information from Mr Clutterbuck (the assistant trainer of the horse)" Mike Turl may not have even known where the information came from or that it was in breach of the rules. Agreed. My point is only that pinning this on "bookies" is false. Bookies had nothing to do with it from what I have seen. |
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Rex
Predictions League
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Post by Rex on Feb 11, 2018 19:40:19 GMT
Looks like Mike Turl has some dodgy mates. But then, we already knew that  |
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 11, 2018 19:44:45 GMT
Looks like Mike Turl has some dodgy mates. But then, we already knew that That's about the sum of it Rex. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 21:03:00 GMT
I don't think it was the jockey; "exploit inside information from Mr Clutterbuck (the assistant trainer of the horse)" Mike Turl may not have even known where the information came from or that it was in breach of the rules. Agreed. My point is only that pinning this on "bookies" is false. Haven't checked what you are saying, can you pop a link up to it? But hey, why would we be surprised that anybody who regards an event where at least one horse dies in this country a day in competition as 'sport' has a dark side? The whole thing stinks, top to bottom. |
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Deleted
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Mike Turl
Feb 11, 2018 21:09:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 21:09:01 GMT
Agreed. My point is only that pinning this on "bookies" is false. Haven't checked what you are saying, can you pop a link up to it? But hey, why would we be surprised that anybody who regards an event where at least one horse dies in this country a day in competition as 'sport' has a dark side? The whole thing stinks, top to bottom. |
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 11, 2018 21:22:47 GMT
Haven't checked what you are saying, can you pop a link up to it? But hey, why would we be surprised that anybody who regards an event where at least one horse dies in this country a day in competition as 'sport' has a dark side? The whole thing stinks, top to bottom. Sorry I'm not quite as sophisticated but it's also worth looking here - www.britishhorseracing.com/press_releases/result-of-a-disciplinary-panel-hearing-neil-clement-eddie-ahern-martin-raymond-and-paul-hill/ - as this gives the details of the associated enquiry and allows people to separate the two. It is very possible that Mike Turl was not even aware of the "corrupt practice to exploit inside information from Mr Clutterbuck" but he was technically responsible. The numbers might seem large to me (and most) but it might not be for others. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 22:01:59 GMT
Haven't checked what you are saying, can you pop a link up to it? But hey, why would we be surprised that anybody who regards an event where at least one horse dies in this country a day in competition as 'sport' has a dark side? The whole thing stinks, top to bottom. All seems a bit cloak and dagger to me and I don't pretend to fully understand it. I accept that the bet wasn't directly with a high street bookmaker, but the whole thing is a bit odd if you ask me. If I understand correctly, the previous largest bet was £2000, that had been going on for a long time, then you can just lump £40k down on a horse to 'not win' and that bet gets accepted? Sounds like not only is the industry immoral in terms of animal welfare but the betting structure almost invites punters to be 'creative'? As I said, the whole thing stinks, top to bottom, we would be better off without it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 22:35:03 GMT
All seems a bit cloak and dagger to me and I don't pretend to fully understand it. I accept that the bet wasn't directly with a high street bookmaker, but the whole thing is a bit odd if you ask me. If I understand correctly, the previous largest bet was £2000, that had been going on for a long time, then you can just lump £40k down on a horse to 'not win' and that bet gets accepted? Sounds like not only is the industry immoral in terms of animal welfare but the betting structure almost invites punters to be 'creative'? As I said, the whole thing stinks, top to bottom, we would be better off without it. Let's imagine I want to place a £8k bet on a horse to win a race at 5/1 so I offer that on an exchange. Somebody has to 'accept' the bet and put up £40k to 'lay' the bet. Other people want to entice people to offer £8k for a horse to win a race because they think it won't win and so they offer better odds than bookmakers are offering (perhaps the 5/1 shot is 3/1 in the regular bookies) in an attempt to win their stake. So yes in effect they are gambling £40k on a horse not winning if laying an £8k bet at 5/1. Betfair is a platform (exchange) that brings punters together to bet and lay as they wish. Not to everyone's taste but perfectly legitimate. In this case, Mr Clement had inside information that the horse would not win (because it's participation in the race was fixed) and so knew it was safe to "lay" the bet and pocket the £8k, and so he asked his friend Mr Turl to a) lend him £40k and b) let him know his Betfair password. Mr Turl's motivation for doing so is none of my business. Perhaps such transactions are "buyer beware" and not illegal and that's why it's not a criminal case, I don't know. But it is against the BHA rules, which is why there were bans and fined issued. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 23:13:12 GMT
All seems a bit cloak and dagger to me and I don't pretend to fully understand it. I accept that the bet wasn't directly with a high street bookmaker, but the whole thing is a bit odd if you ask me. If I understand correctly, the previous largest bet was £2000, that had been going on for a long time, then you can just lump £40k down on a horse to 'not win' and that bet gets accepted? Sounds like not only is the industry immoral in terms of animal welfare but the betting structure almost invites punters to be 'creative'? As I said, the whole thing stinks, top to bottom, we would be better off without it. Let's imagine I want to place a £8k bet on a horse to win a race at 5/1 so I offer that on an exchange. Somebody has to 'accept' the bet and put up £40k to 'lay' the bet. Other people want to entice people to offer £8k for a horse to win a race because they think it won't win and so they offer better odds than bookmakers are offering (perhaps the 5/1 shot is 3/1 in the regular bookies) in an attempt to win their stake. So yes in effect they are gambling £40k on a horse not winning if laying an £8k bet at 5/1. Betfair is a platform (exchange) that brings punters together to bet and lay as they wish. Not to everyone's taste but perfectly legitimate. In this case, Mr Clement had inside information that the horse would not win (because it's participation in the race was fixed) and so knew it was safe to "lay" the bet and pocket the £8k, and so he asked his friend Mr Turl to a) lend him £40k and b) let him know his Betfair password. Mr Turl's motivation for doing so is none of my business. Perhaps such transactions are "buyer beware" and not illegal and that's why it's not a criminal case, I don't know. But it is against the BHA rules, which is why there were bans and fined issued. As I said, the moment bets are accepted for a horse not to win, or a footballer to get a yellow card in a certain match or a team to let in 2 or more goals (see Esmond Million), or a wicket to fall in a certain over, there's only one possible outcome. The punters are no more or less greedy than the bookmakers, they are all looking to tip the balance in their favour. Wonder how much fuss Betfair or the racing authorities would like to make about the tips Mike has received where he's lost his stake and about inside information, witheld from honest people sticking their tenners on runners which would have revealed that the horse had no chance whatsoever of winning or being placed. Scabby industry, for whoever runs it to be pretending to take some kind of moral high ground is laughable. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 11, 2018 23:53:03 GMT
I find it pretty unnecessary to have this title. The person mentioned has nothing to do with Mike’s business so I think it’s a bit off to place the name in the OP’s thread. Just simply Mike Turl, the latest would suffice.
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 12, 2018 8:23:48 GMT
Let's imagine I want to place a £8k bet on a horse to win a race at 5/1 so I offer that on an exchange. Somebody has to 'accept' the bet and put up £40k to 'lay' the bet. Other people want to entice people to offer £8k for a horse to win a race because they think it won't win and so they offer better odds than bookmakers are offering (perhaps the 5/1 shot is 3/1 in the regular bookies) in an attempt to win their stake. So yes in effect they are gambling £40k on a horse not winning if laying an £8k bet at 5/1. Betfair is a platform (exchange) that brings punters together to bet and lay as they wish. Not to everyone's taste but perfectly legitimate. In this case, Mr Clement had inside information that the horse would not win (because it's participation in the race was fixed) and so knew it was safe to "lay" the bet and pocket the £8k, and so he asked his friend Mr Turl to a) lend him £40k and b) let him know his Betfair password. Mr Turl's motivation for doing so is none of my business. Perhaps such transactions are "buyer beware" and not illegal and that's why it's not a criminal case, I don't know. But it is against the BHA rules, which is why there were bans and fined issued. As I said, the moment bets are accepted for a horse not to win, or a footballer to get a yellow card in a certain match or a team to let in 2 or more goals (see Esmond Million), or a wicket to fall in a certain over, there's only one possible outcome. The punters are no more or less greedy than the bookmakers, they are all looking to tip the balance in their favour. Wonder how much fuss Betfair or the racing authorities would like to make about the tips Mike has received where he's lost his stake and about inside information, witheld from honest people sticking their tenners on runners which would have revealed that the horse had no chance whatsoever of winning or being placed. Scabby industry, for whoever runs it to be pretending to take some kind of moral high ground is laughable. You can even bet on pie eating in football. That's the reason why the "betting police" are zealous in their issuing of bans and fines. Not sure anyone is trying to take the moral high ground. |
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Rex
Predictions League
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Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Feb 12, 2018 8:29:57 GMT
Let's imagine I want to place a £8k bet on a horse to win a race at 5/1 so I offer that on an exchange. Somebody has to 'accept' the bet and put up £40k to 'lay' the bet. Other people want to entice people to offer £8k for a horse to win a race because they think it won't win and so they offer better odds than bookmakers are offering (perhaps the 5/1 shot is 3/1 in the regular bookies) in an attempt to win their stake. So yes in effect they are gambling £40k on a horse not winning if laying an £8k bet at 5/1. Betfair is a platform (exchange) that brings punters together to bet and lay as they wish. Not to everyone's taste but perfectly legitimate. In this case, Mr Clement had inside information that the horse would not win (because it's participation in the race was fixed) and so knew it was safe to "lay" the bet and pocket the £8k, and so he asked his friend Mr Turl to a) lend him £40k and b) let him know his Betfair password. Mr Turl's motivation for doing so is none of my business. Perhaps such transactions are "buyer beware" and not illegal and that's why it's not a criminal case, I don't know. But it is against the BHA rules, which is why there were bans and fined issued. As I said, the moment bets are accepted for a horse not to win, or a footballer to get a yellow card in a certain match or a team to let in 2 or more goals (see Esmond Million), or a wicket to fall in a certain over, there's only one possible outcome. The punters are no more or less greedy than the bookmakers, they are all looking to tip the balance in their favour. Wonder how much fuss Betfair or the racing authorities would like to make about the tips Mike has received where he's lost his stake and about inside information, witheld from honest people sticking their tenners on runners which would have revealed that the horse had no chance whatsoever of winning or being placed. Scabby industry, for whoever runs it to be pretending to take some kind of moral high ground is laughable.The betting industry is a slightly murky business I'll give you that, but then again pretty much all industries are. Wherever there is money to be made, some people will try to gain an advantage. |
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Post by tanksfull on Feb 12, 2018 8:47:17 GMT
As I said, the moment bets are accepted for a horse not to win, or a footballer to get a yellow card in a certain match or a team to let in 2 or more goals (see Esmond Million), or a wicket to fall in a certain over, there's only one possible outcome. The punters are no more or less greedy than the bookmakers, they are all looking to tip the balance in their favour. Wonder how much fuss Betfair or the racing authorities would like to make about the tips Mike has received where he's lost his stake and about inside information, witheld from honest people sticking their tenners on runners which would have revealed that the horse had no chance whatsoever of winning or being placed. Scabby industry, for whoever runs it to be pretending to take some kind of moral high ground is laughable.The betting industry is a slightly murky business I'll give you that, but then again pretty much all industries are. Wherever there is money to be made, some people will try to gain an advantage. Nail on head Rex. It's easier to hide or has just become accepted in other industries. NHS paying far too much for drugs. What is the price of petrol today and why? Should agents in football receive fees (should managers receive bungs)? How much do politicians receive and what do they do for the company they represent as a Director? The list is never-ending. |
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Feb 12, 2018 9:10:17 GMT
The betting industry is a slightly murky business I'll give you that, but then again pretty much all industries are. Wherever there is money to be made, some people will try to gain an advantage. Nail on head Rex. It's easier to hide or has just become accepted in other industries. NHS paying far too much for drugs. What is the price of petrol today and why? Should agents in football receive fees (should managers receive bungs)? How much do politicians receive and what do they do for the company they represent as a Director? The list is never-ending. The only difference being is that many of the advantages gained you mention are , ahem, legal. Legality and morality have never really been bedfellows. |
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Deleted
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Mike Turl
Feb 12, 2018 9:11:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 9:11:55 GMT
The betting industry is a slightly murky business I'll give you that, but then again pretty much all industries are. Wherever there is money to be made, some people will try to gain an advantage. Nail on head Rex. It's easier to hide or has just become accepted in other industries. NHS paying far too much for drugs. What is the price of petrol today and why? Should agents in football receive fees (should managers receive bungs)? How much do politicians receive and what do they do for the company they represent as a Director? The list is never-ending. Absolutely. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 9:14:42 GMT
Nail on head Rex. It's easier to hide or has just become accepted in other industries. NHS paying far too much for drugs. What is the price of petrol today and why? Should agents in football receive fees (should managers receive bungs)? How much do politicians receive and what do they do for the company they represent as a Director? The list is never-ending. The only difference being is that many of the advantages gained you mention are , ahem, legal. Legality and morality have never really been bedfellows. Shades of grey on "legality" there Rex, but morality is rarely a defining feature when money enters the equation. Oxfam anyone? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 10:18:16 GMT
The betting industry is a slightly murky business I'll give you that, but then again pretty much all industries are. Wherever there is money to be made, some people will try to gain an advantage. Nail on head Rex. It's easier to hide or has just become accepted in other industries. NHS paying far too much for drugs. What is the price of petrol today and why? Should agents in football receive fees (should managers receive bungs)? How much do politicians receive and what do they do for the company they represent as a Director? The list is never-ending. If you haven't already, read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, that'll give some insight into how the drugs industry works. Yes they are pretending to be moral by applying rules to regulate actions surrounding a sport that sees endless animals destroyed in the name of entertainment. Why not show the animals on TV laying there with their cannons shattered? Happens every day. |
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 10:39:19 GMT
Correct. And anyone could see that the FA will always pick on the easy target and then say how tough they are on “wrong doing.” Solihull Moors are an easy target to act tough over. I dont condone the behaviour he has been found guilty over but as you say there are plenty of problems floating about the game at the higher end that are ignored. If it were right to sack Allardyce for what he did when England manager how come he is allowed to manage elsewhere? Do you need a higher morality to be England manager than a club manager? I guess you do. Basically the FA acts as a bully to the lower leagues because they can. No one is going to oppose them. If they tried the same tactics with PL clubs they would be faced with legal teams that would run rings around them. I’ve read about the guy at Solihull on here as having been involved in BRFC but not being itk I don’t know a lot about him but perhaps it’s a good thing he isn’t involved with us. I’m sure others might disagree.😉 UTG! I don't claim to know for sure, but my understanding is that he's not done anything wrong as far as football goes, but his generosity has raised some eyebrows and now his function within the club is being looked at. Let's wait for the outcome before deciding if he's actually done anything wrong. As for the horse racing thing, again, I only know what I've been told, but he seems to likes a flutter and regularly places hefty bets. Of course he gets tips, on one occasion his tip was correct but he had no way of knowing if there was anything sinister going on behind the tip. The daft thing is, he never drew the winnings from his account and by the time he found out that the booky was spitting his dummy Mike had already lost all of the winnings on other bets, so if he's part of some huge race rigging ring they are pretty rubbish at doing it. Neither did David Pipe |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 10:41:00 GMT
I don't claim to know for sure, but my understanding is that he's not done anything wrong as far as football goes, but his generosity has raised some eyebrows and now his function within the club is being looked at. Let's wait for the outcome before deciding if he's actually done anything wrong. As for the horse racing thing, again, I only know what I've been told, but he seems to likes a flutter and regularly places hefty bets. Of course he gets tips, on one occasion his tip was correct but he had no way of knowing if there was anything sinister going on behind the tip. The daft thing is, he never drew the winnings from his account and by the time he found out that the booky was spitting his dummy Mike had already lost all of the winnings on other bets, so if he's part of some huge race rigging ring they are pretty rubbish at doing it. Neither did David Pipe Didn't we wait until the outcome of his trial before releasing him? |
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