Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 11:47:06 GMT
For some a modest increase in playing budget,some staff appointments and a few trimmings at the ground are enough to please. But we have a terrible ground and very poor training facilities,with development players training across town from the 1st team who have access to one football pitch at cribbs. So for me until the owners actually deliver a new ground and a proper professional training facility i wont be getting too exited about the progress of the club. Its nothing to do with enjoying the football on match day. Where did I say what has happened is enough to please me? Read the post. How do you know it’s a “modest increase” in playing budget, you don’t, neither do I. No one does. The players signed have been a steady improvement on what we had before imo. “Some staff appointments....” Compare the staff in 14/15 when we were in the Conference and now. Our medical staff, training staff and development staff is completely different to our staffing levels before. We are far better staffed now than then imo. Of course if you disagree then do so, after all it’s a Forum. Yes, I want a new ground as well. I want a new training ground as well but those don’t come along in months and we will have to wait and be patient. I’m sorry for you that you can’t get excited about the progress of the club until “ a new ground and a proper professional training facility” are delivered because every time Rovers win I get excited and will continue to do so even if our ground is cr**. And I bet that when we score and even win a match you cheer and don’t call out “What about the new ground, what about the training ground”. Perhaps you won’t get excited about anything for the next 4/5 years until we have both the new ground and training ground, if that’s the case, poor you! Of course we all want what you’ve said but this is BRFC not Manchester City or West Ham. We don’t get given new grounds that the taxpayers have paid for, this is the real world. I won’t let my enjoyment of being a Rovers fan be spoiled by things I can’t control! But I agree with your implication ( at least I think you’re saying this and I apologise if you aren’t) that the owners do need to deliver a new ground and training facility asap. I think they are trying to do that although I know others on here don’t. I have to hope and have faith that they will do this and I do. I have said many times since August that the owners need to communicate to us some sense of what their vision is and some firm plans re the Mem. Perhaps this is the first step. Time will tell. But your original post indicated that success on the pitch has nothing to do with owners. It does for the reasons I said and that wasn’t answered but I appreciate the fact that you added “imo” which everyone is entitled to. UTG! The manager has many times indicated we have a modest budget and cannot compete with the highest budgets in the division. The 2 promotions were mostly achieved under the previous owners. The owners gave out deceptive information about the prospects regarding UWE as well as suggesting the training ground would be ready in part at least by 2018. The issues raised by swiss gas and others havnt been resolved. The manager has stated he will become a "sitting duck" at bristol rovers or another paul trollope so the long time scale your on about is of no use to him.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Oct 12, 2017 12:34:19 GMT
I am very disappointed that UWE did not happen and keen to know the detailed reasons why.
However, Steve Hamer has informed me that the ALQ family have a very strict code of business ethics when it comes to commercial negotiations. This explains why they have not been more forthcoming - however frustrating. I don't buy into the wild conspiracy theories, but I do think that Hani holds all the purse strings and he perceives BRFC as Wael's project. Evolution is code for gradual, cost-controlled progress.
It baffles me why they can be criticised for consulting with local parties, given the history.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 12, 2017 12:34:33 GMT
Blimey! Are all those points serious? All managers say they have modest budgets, none say they have the best and we all know that DC doesn’t like spending money anyway. I never said the owners were responsible for our promotions. My point was success on the field, although down to the manager and team primarily was also due to the owners for the reasons I said. But the fact remains in Feb 2016 at the takeover we were mid League 2. We are now mid League 1 due to a great manager and good team. The owners should also be congratulated because I know if we had gone down last year they would have been blamed. So credit where it’s due. Yes, I don’t disagree that the communication over the collapse of the UWE was poor and knowing what they did, a plan B and alternatives should have been prepared. The training ground similarly we are having to wait. And this thread was started due to initial conversations about the Mem taking place. As I said, time will tell. Yes I’ve read swiss gas as well and respect what he had to say. But you say these “issues haven’t been resolved.” What issues? I presume you mean borrowing against the Mem. What are you expecting to be resolved? And how do you mean resolved? (These are rhetorical questions, I dont expect answers because I don’t think there are any!) DC has signed a 5 year contract so I suspect he was happy to sign and it was worth his while to do so. If he gets a better offer he will go and we will get good compensation. He’s our manager now but he will move on and I’ll still support BRFC. But I would rather that than just agree to the terms of the UWE if they were not right. I do not know if they were bad conditions or not, nor does anyone else. Our owners decided they were not right for the club and others have said something similar. We don’t know and we probably never will. But I’m glad that we are not going to do the same as Coventry or Darlington and just sign up to something because it sparkles. I don’t think we are too different on what we want for BRFC. My original response was to your assertion that DC and the team have achieved but the owners haven’t. The subsequent posts have expanded that and answered your point that you wouldn’t get excited until we had a new ground and training facility. I suspect I’m older than you and I can’t wait that long! I will still continue to get excited by a team winning, albeit in a cr** ground because I refuse to let my enjoyment be spoiled by something I can do b***** all about! It is not dependent on us having a new ground! If you do not want to get excited about Rovers that is your choice! UTG!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 12, 2017 12:36:25 GMT
I am very disappointed that UWE did not happen and keen to know the detailed reasons why. However, Steve Hamer has informed me that the ALQ family have a very strict code of business ethics when it comes to commercial negotiations. This explains why they have not been more forthcoming - however frustrating. I don't buy into the wild conspiracy theories, but I do think that Hani holds all the purse strings and he perceives BRFC as Wael's project. Evolution is code for gradual, cost-controlled progress. It baffles me why they can be criticised for consulting with local parties, given the history. Thank you for that. It’s something I hadn’t seen on here and helps the understanding. A valuable contribution to the thread. UTG!
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Post by droitwichgas on Oct 12, 2017 17:15:44 GMT
I am very disappointed that UWE did not happen and keen to know the detailed reasons why. However, Steve Hamer has informed me that the ALQ family have a very strict code of business ethics when it comes to commercial negotiations. This explains why they have not been more forthcoming - however frustrating. I don't buy into the wild conspiracy theories, but I do think that Hani holds all the purse strings and he perceives BRFC as Wael's project. Evolution is code for gradual, cost-controlled progress. It baffles me why they can be criticised for consulting with local parties, given the history. Problem is how the hell do we fund a complete rebuild of the Mem with just modest investment, even just replacing the grandstand would cost £10m+. Plus there's a similar amount need to fund the training ground development. Added to that there's the views from GD & NH that it's impossible to ever make the Mem site viable.
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Post by davehuddscousin on Oct 12, 2017 20:33:40 GMT
.....and if GD and NH say it it must be true! :-))
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 22:03:08 GMT
Blimey! Are all those points serious? All managers say they have modest budgets, none say they have the best and we all know that DC doesn’t like spending money anyway. I never said the owners were responsible for our promotions. My point was success on the field, although down to the manager and team primarily was also due to the owners for the reasons I said. But the fact remains in Feb 2016 at the takeover we were mid League 2. We are now mid League 1 due to a great manager and good team. The owners should also be congratulated because I know if we had gone down last year they would have been blamed. So credit where it’s due. Yes, I don’t disagree that the communication over the collapse of the UWE was poor and knowing what they did, a plan B and alternatives should have been prepared. The training ground similarly we are having to wait. And this thread was started due to initial conversations about the Mem taking place. As I said, time will tell. Yes I’ve read swiss gas as well and respect what he had to say. But you say these “issues haven’t been resolved.” What issues? I presume you mean borrowing against the Mem. What are you expecting to be resolved? And how do you mean resolved? (These are rhetorical questions, I dont expect answers because I don’t think there are any!) DC has signed a 5 year contract so I suspect he was happy to sign and it was worth his while to do so. If he gets a better offer he will go and we will get good compensation. He’s our manager now but he will move on and I’ll still support BRFC. But I would rather that than just agree to the terms of the UWE if they were not right. I do not know if they were bad conditions or not, nor does anyone else. Our owners decided they were not right for the club and others have said something similar. We don’t know and we probably never will. But I’m glad that we are not going to do the same as Coventry or Darlington and just sign up to something because it sparkles. I don’t think we are too different on what we want for BRFC. My original response was to your assertion that DC and the team have achieved but the owners haven’t. The subsequent posts have expanded that and answered your point that you wouldn’t get excited until we had a new ground and training facility. I suspect I’m older than you and I can’t wait that long! I will still continue to get excited by a team winning, albeit in a cr** ground because I refuse to let my enjoyment be spoiled by something I can do b***** all about! It is not dependent on us having a new ground! If you do not want to get excited about Rovers that is your choice! UTG! Im 58 and i very much enjoy the football we have played under dc. He signed his contract before the collapse of uwe and before it became clear that the training ground would not be ready until god knows when. When the owners took over i knew we had a good team and manager and i thought at last an owner to drive us on,build on the good team,deliver a new ground and training facility. Now i have doubts about the owners but maybe its a 10 year project and then we will be ready. In the meantime the manager will leave and the team will fade away and we will all wait for the next good rovers team as normal. What im saying is that until they deliver the ground and training facility i will just enjoy the football in league 1 or 2 whichever we are in during the next few years or more.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 13, 2017 1:54:15 GMT
Blimey! Are all those points serious? All managers say they have modest budgets, none say they have the best and we all know that DC doesn’t like spending money anyway. I never said the owners were responsible for our promotions. My point was success on the field, although down to the manager and team primarily was also due to the owners for the reasons I said. But the fact remains in Feb 2016 at the takeover we were mid League 2. We are now mid League 1 due to a great manager and good team. The owners should also be congratulated because I know if we had gone down last year they would have been blamed. So credit where it’s due. Yes, I don’t disagree that the communication over the collapse of the UWE was poor and knowing what they did, a plan B and alternatives should have been prepared. The training ground similarly we are having to wait. And this thread was started due to initial conversations about the Mem taking place. As I said, time will tell. Yes I’ve read swiss gas as well and respect what he had to say. But you say these “issues haven’t been resolved.” What issues? I presume you mean borrowing against the Mem. What are you expecting to be resolved? And how do you mean resolved? (These are rhetorical questions, I dont expect answers because I don’t think there are any!) DC has signed a 5 year contract so I suspect he was happy to sign and it was worth his while to do so. If he gets a better offer he will go and we will get good compensation. He’s our manager now but he will move on and I’ll still support BRFC. But I would rather that than just agree to the terms of the UWE if they were not right. I do not know if they were bad conditions or not, nor does anyone else. Our owners decided they were not right for the club and others have said something similar. We don’t know and we probably never will. But I’m glad that we are not going to do the same as Coventry or Darlington and just sign up to something because it sparkles. I don’t think we are too different on what we want for BRFC. My original response was to your assertion that DC and the team have achieved but the owners haven’t. The subsequent posts have expanded that and answered your point that you wouldn’t get excited until we had a new ground and training facility. I suspect I’m older than you and I can’t wait that long! I will still continue to get excited by a team winning, albeit in a cr** ground because I refuse to let my enjoyment be spoiled by something I can do b***** all about! It is not dependent on us having a new ground! If you do not want to get excited about Rovers that is your choice! UTG! Im 58 and i very much enjoy the football we have played under dc. He signed his contract before the collapse of uwe and before it became clear that the training ground would not be ready until god knows when. When the owners took over i knew we had a good team and manager and i thought at last an owner to drive us on,build on the good team,deliver a new ground and training facility. Now i have doubts about the owners but maybe its a 10 year project and then we will be ready. In the meantime the manager will leave and the team will fade away and we will all wait for the next good rovers team as normal. What im saying is that until they deliver the ground and training facility i will just enjoy the football in league 1 or 2 whichever we are in during the next few years or more.Agree. And that was one of my points, I’m older and I won’t let my enjoyment of this time as a Rovers fan be spoiled or compromised by stuff I can’t do anything about. It’s good we agree that we can enjoy the football and I guess I’m more optimistic about a possible new ground and other stuff than perhaps you are. We can still enjoy the football even if we have to wait longer. We must never let any owners, whoever they are, stop us enjoying our Rovers! UTG!
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faggotygas
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 13, 2017 9:17:08 GMT
Can I add to that that the finances need to be in order, no point having a bells and whistles stadium unless the numbers work and the thing is sustainable. Thats a big subject though isnt it? To get the ground and training facility not to mention the category 2 academy status mentioned by the owner or owners son would surely involve big losses in the medium term? it would have to be future sustainability and massive increase in the value of the club in the future as the long term aim in my view. To be a bit pedantic, developing the stadium/training ground would not incur losses, as the money you spend becomes an asset in the accounts - unless the project doesn't go ahead.
The problem is cash.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 10:17:25 GMT
Thats a big subject though isnt it? To get the ground and training facility not to mention the category 2 academy status mentioned by the owner or owners son would surely involve big losses in the medium term? it would have to be future sustainability and massive increase in the value of the club in the future as the long term aim in my view. To be a bit pedantic, developing the stadium/training ground would not incur losses, as the money you spend becomes an asset in the accounts - unless the project doesn't go ahead.
The problem is cash.
They[owners] either do not have the money or are not prepared to spend the money is how it appears to me. Regarding sustainability i saw an article online which stated that 15 championship teams spend more than there total turnover on staff wages including bristol city who spent 123% of there income on staff! I cant see how were going to get anywhere [the championship] without overspending for a period of time at least.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 13, 2017 11:22:35 GMT
Thats a big subject though isnt it? To get the ground and training facility not to mention the category 2 academy status mentioned by the owner or owners son would surely involve big losses in the medium term? it would have to be future sustainability and massive increase in the value of the club in the future as the long term aim in my view. To be a bit pedantic, developing the stadium/training ground would not incur losses, as the money you spend becomes an asset in the accounts - unless the project doesn't go ahead.
The problem is cash.
The problem is cash. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Hani has the money and Wael hasn't some up with a sound business case for spending it in Rovers. The UWE didn't make sense (though we will never know why by the sound of it). Hence also the stall on the Colony. No conspiracy theory here, looks pretty straight forward. He's a banker and will want a return on his investment. They are "looking at the options to redevelop the Mem". This gives them breathing space to figure out what to do next. Prepare for a long period of silence. And in the meantime enjoy the football.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 13, 2017 12:37:32 GMT
To be a bit pedantic, developing the stadium/training ground would not incur losses, as the money you spend becomes an asset in the accounts - unless the project doesn't go ahead.
The problem is cash.
They[owners] either do not have the money or are not prepared to spend the money is how it appears to me. Regarding sustainability i saw an article online which stated that 15 championship teams spend more than there total turnover on staff wages including bristol city who spent 123% of there income on staff! I cant see how were going to get anywhere [the championship] without overspending for a period of time at least. Ok, yes, I'm just saying that money spent on a training ground / stadium does not cause losses on the accounts, unless the project doesn't go ahead.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 13, 2017 12:38:02 GMT
To be a bit pedantic, developing the stadium/training ground would not incur losses, as the money you spend becomes an asset in the accounts - unless the project doesn't go ahead.
The problem is cash.
The problem is cash. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Hani has the money and Wael hasn't some up with a sound business case for spending it in Rovers. The UWE didn't make sense (though we will never know why by the sound of it). Hence also the stall on the Colony. No conspiracy theory here, looks pretty straight forward. He's a banker and will want a return on his investment. They are "looking at the options to redevelop the Mem". This gives them breathing space to figure out what to do next. Prepare for a long period of silence. And in the meantime enjoy the football. Ok, yes, I'm just saying that money spent on a training ground / stadium does not cause losses on the accounts, unless the project doesn't go ahead.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Oct 13, 2017 12:52:17 GMT
Blueiris sums it up well.
The leap between wage budgets for League 1 and Championship is huge. Please note that our highest paid player last season is on 12k a week, plus hefty signing-on fee to sit on the bench.
Be careful what we clamour for. Our supporters want to win but if we don't and players are paid big but market-rate bucks, then the mentality changes, irrespective of division.
We have a team and manager that are very popular with fan-base. We need to manage all our expectations (including DC's) about what is reasonable progress for us a football club, given our fan-base and infrastructure.
Let's establish ourselves as a top-half L1 team - an achievement in itself. Then we can move on with hungry, talented players, well-coached. The infrastructure needs to keep pace but ALQs know that.
As far as the ground is concerned, I want a ground that provides a great match-day experience aka atmosphere. That's why most people come to football.
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Post by droitwichgas on Oct 13, 2017 18:30:26 GMT
Blueiris sums it up well. The leap between wage budgets for League 1 and Championship is huge. Please note that our highest paid player last season is on 12k a week, plus hefty signing-on fee to sit on the bench. Be careful what we clamour for. Our supporters want to win but if we don't and players are paid big but market-rate bucks, then the mentality changes, irrespective of division. We have a team and manager that are very popular with fan-base. We need to manage all our expectations (including DC's) about what is reasonable progress for us a football club, given our fan-base and infrastructure. Let's establish ourselves as a top-half L1 team - an achievement in itself. Then we can move on with hungry, talented players, well-coached. The infrastructure needs to keep pace but ALQs know that. As far as the ground is concerned, I want a ground that provides a great match-day experience aka atmosphere. That's why most people come to football. Whatever division we're win fans will always want to see the team winning/pushing for a play off space, so not sure how you manage expectations by saying to fans, and it's players?, we're aiming for a top 10 finish, even if it that's all the club are aiming for?
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Post by PessimistGas on Oct 13, 2017 20:01:18 GMT
To be a bit pedantic, developing the stadium/training ground would not incur losses, as the money you spend becomes an asset in the accounts - unless the project doesn't go ahead.
The problem is cash.
The problem is cash. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Hani has the money and Wael hasn't some up with a sound business case for spending it in Rovers. The UWE didn't make sense (though we will never know why by the sound of it). Hence also the stall on the Colony. No conspiracy theory here, looks pretty straight forward. He's a banker and will want a return on his investment. They are "looking at the options to redevelop the Mem". This gives them breathing space to figure out what to do next. Prepare for a long period of silence. And in the meantime enjoy the football. Sorry, but who the f*ck buys a league 2 football club for a return on their investment? If that is really is the case then they are out of their depth.
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Post by droitwichgas on Oct 13, 2017 20:43:21 GMT
The problem is cash. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Hani has the money and Wael hasn't some up with a sound business case for spending it in Rovers. The UWE didn't make sense (though we will never know why by the sound of it). Hence also the stall on the Colony. No conspiracy theory here, looks pretty straight forward. He's a banker and will want a return on his investment. They are "looking at the options to redevelop the Mem". This gives them breathing space to figure out what to do next. Prepare for a long period of silence. And in the meantime enjoy the football. Sorry, but who the f*ck buys a league 2 football club for a return on their investment? If that is really is the case then they are out of their depth. Perhaps Wael thought he was buying Blackburn Rovers!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 14, 2017 0:42:06 GMT
The money needed in the Championship is enormous. I think it is the 5th or 6th biggest league, financially, in the world. So if Rovers are going to be part of it then we either have to improve our infrastructure 100 times or have a super rich owner who can sustain losses in the short and medium term. Or probably both. The most we can currently expect is to improve the infrastructure and ground stuff bit by bit and spend on the team to keep it competitive. We could get promoted but we wouldn’t sustain it in the Championship without money. But the next few years could be good from a football point of view. Of course, the “monkey in the room” would always be the ground or lack of it rather. I intend to enjoy the journey, I can do bu**** all about the rest. But it’s always been the way as a gashead! UTG!
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
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Post by Thatslife on Oct 14, 2017 8:14:01 GMT
Its nice to know the Mem has friends......I on the other hand believe that rebuilding / redeveloping of the Mem is a bad idea because of the infrastructure around the ground.
Parking being the most difficult to cure. Getting motorist out of their cars has always been difficult and usually fails. Park and ride works for getting to the match but can you imagine a large portion of the proposed larger crowd all wanting to use the park and ride at the same time, no crowd segregation and supporters getting frustrated and annoyed waiting for a bus is surely a tinder box for trouble.
The roads around the Mem cannot be made to take more traffic, its total gridlock as it is, when we a decent crowd.
A new ground in a new location is a must or else I fear the worst.
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Post by laughinggas on Oct 14, 2017 8:16:12 GMT
Its nice to know the Mem has friends......I on the other hand believe that rebuilding / redeveloping of the Mem is a bad idea because of the infrastructure around the ground. Parking being the most difficult to cure. Getting motorist out of their cars has always been difficult and usually fails. Park and ride works for getting to the match but can you imagine a large portion of the proposed larger crowd all wanting to use the park and ride at the same time, no crowd segregation and supporters getting frustrated and annoyed waiting for a bus is surely a tinder box for trouble. The roads around the Mem cannot be made to take more traffic, its total gridlock as it is, when we a decent crowd. A new ground in a new location is a must or else I fear the worst. Seemed to work well at Southampton and Brighton (Wythdean)
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