Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 19:11:14 GMT
Padstow.
I was trying to save time, but that didn't work, so let's do it long hand.
The name of the organisation is the Supporters Club.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Oct 8, 2017 20:43:10 GMT
Hey Padstow
So what exactly are your credentials because I haven't a Scooby Doo who you are? I have been to the town though. All I know is that you portray yourself as some ITK football expert with an inside track on BRFC.
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Oct 8, 2017 21:25:19 GMT
I have checked the constitution of BRSC before - a key extract [the objects]:
2.1 To create and develop active support and lively interest in the activities of
Bristol Rovers Football Club (“BRFC” and encompassing any future name changes
of the Company), Bristol Rovers (1883) Limited or any subsidiaries, and to enable
BRSC members to obtain the maximum pleasure from such support and interest.
2.2 To arrange transport to away matches for BRSC members.
2.3 To cater for the social interests of BRSC members.
2.4 To encourage a high standard of sportsmanship and understanding of
Association Football.
2.5 To give BRSC members a formal medium of approach to the BRFC Directorate
via the BRSC Executive Committee and the elected Director(s).
2.6 To render assistance and support to BRFC in particular and football in general
by every possible means.
2.7 To support and develop further projects usually associated with Supporters
Clubs such as the BRSC members agree upon.
2.8 The provision and maintenance of club premises at 199 Two Mile Hill Road,
Kingswood, Bristol and any further premises acquired by BRSC.
2.9 To operate BRSC on a professional basis including its activities and its assets
in accordance with the wishes of its members.
2.10 To administer the BRSC Share Scheme (“BRSCSS”) and to endeavour to
ensure that in all things BRSC, BRSCSS and BRFC act in accordance with the
Subscription Agreement dated 15th November 2003 and any future agreed
changes thereto.
2.5 allows supporters a route to the board, but to me I have seen little evidence of this. In terms of looking after the welfare of supporters there is no real provision. BRSC certainly has failed 2.9 after the recent accounts shenanigans. Essentially under 2.1 and 2.6 BRSC exists to support the activities of BRFC, and certainly not challenge it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 21:34:42 GMT
2.9 well that is a BIG FAIL then. IMHO it should mean that BRSC should disband.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 21:36:25 GMT
Hey Padstow Why do I have to join an organisation to change it if I think it is past its sell-by date? Why would I devote my time asking a dinosaur to reform his eating habits. Keyboard warrior - and you make out you're the football savvy one. Just face facts. It's now old and naff. It will come to us all in the end, so chill out. padstow is a football scout, didnt you know ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 21:47:44 GMT
2.9 well that is a BIG FAIL then. IMHO it should mean that BRSC should disband. 2.8's a corker: provision and maintenance of (specifically named) 199 (as if that's why the organisation exists). Well, they've now got a lease for it, so I guess that's still 'providing' it, but the whole thing about being constitutionally bound to the place....? Didn't Jim say they were wondering whether still to bother, once the rent goes up? A change of constitution would be needed if not.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Oct 9, 2017 7:14:55 GMT
2.9 well that is a BIG FAIL then. IMHO it should mean that BRSC should disband. but if the members are happy? or don't particularly care?
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harrybuckle
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Post by harrybuckle on Oct 9, 2017 8:00:12 GMT
If you aren't a member of any organisation then you have no influence over what it does and how it does it. I don't have to make up my credentials thank you very much Except for one tiny little thing, the SC is there to represent all supporters, not just those that want to join the club, not just those that want to join the Share Scheme and I know Harry won't like it, but writing pieces for the match day programme isn't a requirement for holding or expressing an opinion either. Struggling to see where in the constitution it says about representing all supporters or non members ?
You made an earlier point, nothing to do with BRSC about free tickets and I just shot you down as you know by offering you two challenges which you generously agreed to concede.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Oct 9, 2017 8:13:37 GMT
I haven't been a member of the SC for a number of years now, however I did pay into the Share Scheme.
so to pose a question as I am sure there are many similar to myself, can I therefore consider myself a shareholder (although not in the truest sense)and therefore have an opinion
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Post by Dr John Dee on Oct 9, 2017 8:27:42 GMT
Well those objectives do seem a little insular. A SC that works on behalf of all supporters might be better in this day and age with advantages for membership. Bringing me back to my tenner a ticket rail seat stand which is now for Supporters Club Members only.
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Post by jungleboogie on Oct 9, 2017 8:55:09 GMT
Except for one tiny little thing, the SC is there to represent all supporters, not just those that want to join the club, not just those that want to join the Share Scheme and I know Harry won't like it, but writing pieces for the match day programme isn't a requirement for holding or expressing an opinion either. Struggling to see where in the constitution it says about representing all supporters or non members ?
You made an earlier point, nothing to do with BRSC about free tickets and I just shot you down as you know by offering you two challenges which you generously agreed to concede.
The 'war hero' sums the SC up perfectly above. They think they are by far and away superior to other 'normal' fans, hence the 'normal' fans opinions don't count.
Give me the 'normal' fans any days of the week, not some jumped up old boys club, who run the show like some decrepit old social club.
Time for all things supporters based to be taken under the wing of the club, and hopefully the new Commercial Director can start this sooner rather than later.
Then the SC can be consigned to the bin, though I'm sure you'd still find the old members sitting in some dusty hall somewhere in ill fitting suits, talking over the good times when they were 'better than everyone else'.
UTG
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Post by laughinggas on Oct 9, 2017 9:32:21 GMT
How many clubs have supporters clubs these day? Did a quick search and found supporter trusts and travel clubs. Not got time to analyse at the moment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 9:46:09 GMT
Except for one tiny little thing, the SC is there to represent all supporters, not just those that want to join the club, not just those that want to join the Share Scheme and I know Harry won't like it, but writing pieces for the match day programme isn't a requirement for holding or expressing an opinion either. Struggling to see where in the constitution it says about representing all supporters or non members ?
You made an earlier point, nothing to do with BRSC about free tickets and I just shot you down as you know by offering you two challenges which you generously agreed to concede.
So, let's get this straight, you don't get free tickets, you earn them for work done, hope you've been declaring that on your P60 for the last 40 years. At today's prices, just for League games, that's £12000 worth of taxable benefits you've had there. Your self importance has got the better of you Harry, you don't earn those free tickets any more than a person selling a 50/50 ticket does. I'll make the point for one final time, I won't bother doing it again as it seems to be a bit difficult for you to grasp, the fact that someone has no interest in writing programme pieces in no way relates to whether or not they should hold or express an opinion on the Supporters Club.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 11:34:04 GMT
Struggling to see where in the constitution it says about representing all supporters or non members ?
You made an earlier point, nothing to do with BRSC about free tickets and I just shot you down as you know by offering you two challenges which you generously agreed to concede.
So, let's get this straight, you don't get free tickets, you earn them for work done, hope you've been declaring that on your P60 for the last 40 years. At today's prices, just for League games, that's £12000 worth of taxable benefits you've had there. Your self importance has got the better of you Harry, you don't earn those free tickets any more than a person selling a 50/50 ticket does. I'll make the point for one final time, I won't bother doing it again as it seems to be a bit difficult for you to grasp, the fact that someone has no interest in writing programme pieces in no way relates to whether or not they should hold or express an opinion on the Supporters Club. A couple of points firstly where in all of his replies to your ravings has harry said he doesn't pay to watch games in fact if you care to check he is a season ticket holder so he pays like everyone else does Secondly you seem unable to grasp to grasp what a club is.so let me explain in simple teras it is a collection of like minded people who join together for mutual benefit.these people are called members and they are allowed to vote on anything that affects the club money non members can do this.as you are not a memberegistered and do not pay an annual membership fee you have no voting rights and no right to any benefits that may accrue from being a member of said club
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 12:02:12 GMT
So, let's get this straight, you don't get free tickets, you earn them for work done, hope you've been declaring that on your P60 for the last 40 years. At today's prices, just for League games, that's £12000 worth of taxable benefits you've had there. Your self importance has got the better of you Harry, you don't earn those free tickets any more than a person selling a 50/50 ticket does. I'll make the point for one final time, I won't bother doing it again as it seems to be a bit difficult for you to grasp, the fact that someone has no interest in writing programme pieces in no way relates to whether or not they should hold or express an opinion on the Supporters Club. A couple of points firstly where in all of his replies to your ravings has harry said he doesn't pay to watch games in fact if you care to check he is a season ticket holder so he pays like everyone else doesSecondly you seem unable to grasp to grasp what a club is.so let me explain in simple teras it is a collection of like minded people who join together for mutual benefit.these people are called members and they are allowed to vote on anything that affects the club money non members can do this.as you are not a memberegistered and do not pay an annual membership fee you have no voting rights and no right to any benefits that may accrue from being a member of said club Are you sure? You may want to ask him that question directly. As for the rest of it, as you say, we are poles apart, but it doesn't matter, I'll happily concede the point, my position is redundant as the SC fails under it's own terms, the failure to maintain 199 and then selling it without consulting its membership demonstrates that. That's before we even start on the failings highlighted here by other contributors. The SC needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide what it wants to be. It can carry on as it is and become progressively more irrelevant to the majority of supporters, or it can modernise and fulfill its potential. Before Harry jumps in again with his usual stuff about people standing in the rain selling tickets etc, nobody is questioning the dedication of those supporters, it's the organisation of time and energy, what the objective is and whether best use is being made of their time and skills that we should maybe be looking at.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Oct 9, 2017 12:34:45 GMT
A couple of points firstly where in all of his replies to your ravings has harry said he doesn't pay to watch games in fact if you care to check he is a season ticket holder so he pays like everyone else doesSecondly you seem unable to grasp to grasp what a club is.so let me explain in simple teras it is a collection of like minded people who join together for mutual benefit.these people are called members and they are allowed to vote on anything that affects the club money non members can do this.as you are not a memberegistered and do not pay an annual membership fee you have no voting rights and no right to any benefits that may accrue from being a member of said club Are you sure? You may want to ask him that question directly. As for the rest of it, as you say, we are poles apart, but it doesn't matter, I'll happily concede the point, my position is redundant as the SC fails under it's own terms, the failure to maintain 199 and then selling it without consulting its membership demonstrates that. That's before we even start on the failings highlighted here by other contributors. The SC needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide what it wants to be. It can carry on as it is and become progressively more irrelevant to the majority of supporters, or it can modernise and fulfill its potential. Before Harry jumps in again with his usual stuff about people standing in the rain selling tickets etc, nobody is questioning the dedication of those supporters, it's the organisation of time and energy, what the objective is and whether best use is being made of their time and skills that we should maybe be looking at. Will be interesting to check the accounts this year.
The SC has been making an operating loss the pass few years. I guess there are monies in reserve looking at the balance sheet, but the SC cannot trade at a loss indefinitely and they have highlighted the 'dilemma' over retaining the 199 outlet because of cost
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 13:14:47 GMT
Are you sure? You may want to ask him that question directly. As for the rest of it, as you say, we are poles apart, but it doesn't matter, I'll happily concede the point, my position is redundant as the SC fails under it's own terms, the failure to maintain 199 and then selling it without consulting its membership demonstrates that. That's before we even start on the failings highlighted here by other contributors. The SC needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide what it wants to be. It can carry on as it is and become progressively more irrelevant to the majority of supporters, or it can modernise and fulfill its potential. Before Harry jumps in again with his usual stuff about people standing in the rain selling tickets etc, nobody is questioning the dedication of those supporters, it's the organisation of time and energy, what the objective is and whether best use is being made of their time and skills that we should maybe be looking at. Will be interesting to check the accounts this year.
The SC has been making an operating loss the pass few years. I guess there are monies in reserve looking at the balance sheet, but the SC cannot trade at a loss indefinitely and they have highlighted the 'dilemma' over retaining the 199 outlet because of cost
Ok so let's shut the supporters club down because a few people wanth that tone happen and break in mind there are in excess of 1500 members in the club being told what to do by approximately 12 forum posters. If the club is losing money then all it has to do is ask it's members if they are prepared to pay an increased membership fee to cover the losses not a problem. As has been said many times by numerous people if you want to change the direction of the supporaters club then join up and put a proposal to the a.g.m.won't hold my breathe for that to happen. As regards the football club taking over let's see what happens it was tried years ago and was a shambles so why would it be any different now.after all the supporters club is meant to be for its members and run independently from the football club take that away and all you are doing is putting money into the club with no accountability
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 13:16:04 GMT
A couple of points firstly where in all of his replies to your ravings has harry said he doesn't pay to watch games in fact if you care to check he is a season ticket holder so he pays like everyone else doesSecondly you seem unable to grasp to grasp what a club is.so let me explain in simple teras it is a collection of like minded people who join together for mutual benefit.these people are called members and they are allowed to vote on anything that affects the club money non members can do this.as you are not a memberegistered and do not pay an annual membership fee you have no voting rights and no right to any benefits that may accrue from being a member of said club Are you sure? You may want to ask him that question directly. As for the rest of it, as you say, we are poles apart, but it doesn't matter, I'll happily concede the point, my position is redundant as the SC fails under it's own terms, the failure to maintain 199 and then selling it without consulting its membership demonstrates that. That's before we even start on the failings highlighted here by other contributors. The SC needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide what it wants to be. It can carry on as it is and become progressively more irrelevant to the majority of supporters, or it can modernise and fulfill its potential. Before Harry jumps in again with his usual stuff about people standing in the rain selling tickets etc, nobody is questioning the dedication of those supporters, it's the organisation of time and energy, what the objective is and whether best use is being made of their time and skills that we should maybe be looking at. How do you know members weren't consulted was it because you weren't asked your opinion
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 13:26:12 GMT
Are you sure? You may want to ask him that question directly. As for the rest of it, as you say, we are poles apart, but it doesn't matter, I'll happily concede the point, my position is redundant as the SC fails under it's own terms, the failure to maintain 199 and then selling it without consulting its membership demonstrates that. That's before we even start on the failings highlighted here by other contributors. The SC needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide what it wants to be. It can carry on as it is and become progressively more irrelevant to the majority of supporters, or it can modernise and fulfill its potential. Before Harry jumps in again with his usual stuff about people standing in the rain selling tickets etc, nobody is questioning the dedication of those supporters, it's the organisation of time and energy, what the objective is and whether best use is being made of their time and skills that we should maybe be looking at. How do you know members weren't consulted was it because you weren't asked your opinion I asked a member Then I checked with BSS, then double checked with Jim.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Oct 9, 2017 13:27:38 GMT
Will be interesting to check the accounts this year.
The SC has been making an operating loss the pass few years. I guess there are monies in reserve looking at the balance sheet, but the SC cannot trade at a loss indefinitely and they have highlighted the 'dilemma' over retaining the 199 outlet because of cost
Ok so let's shut the supporters club down because a few people wanth that tone happen and break in mind there are in excess of 1500 members in the club being told what to do by approximately 12 forum posters. If the club is losing money then all it has to do is ask it's members if they are prepared to pay an increased membership fee to cover the losses not a problem. As has been said many times by numerous people if you want to change the direction of the supporaters club then join up and put a proposal to the a.g.m.won't hold my breathe for that to happen. As regards the football club taking over let's see what happens it was tried years ago and was a shambles so why would it be any different now.after all the supporters club is meant to be for its members and run independently from the football club take that away and all you are doing is putting money into the club with no accountability I don't want the SC to close down. I think it needs to modernise which is my right of opinion, but I am not a member and unlikely to be again anytime soon, so they can get on and do what they want as far as I am concerned
I can read the accounts though and I am pretty sure the membership voted to increase the fee from £7 to £10 in the past couple of years. They could vote to increase it again, but at what point do people think the value for money/benefit for the cost is too much? The SC themselves have highlighted the issue of 199, so it appears it will be discussed and perhaps voted on (by how many of the 1500 though I wonder, if past attendances are anything to go by)
As a former member of the SC and the share scheme and someone who has in the past sold some Programmes/scarves on a few occasions and who has actually stood up and asked questions. I have an opinion (however qualified or not) on the organisation
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