|
Post by mrbluesky on Sept 23, 2016 2:35:55 GMT
is it at all relevant on a forum if a person has played in adult football at whatever level? does it make any difference? how many have played? have any played in good amateur or semi-pro football? any thoughts from anybody?
|
|
|
Post by Henbury Gas on Sept 23, 2016 6:30:24 GMT
never played the game, that's why i support the Gas !
Now God's own Game, cricket that be different !
|
|
simonj
Archie Stevens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 816
|
Post by simonj on Sept 23, 2016 7:38:25 GMT
I played a lot and to an ok standard, but sometimes have a view that doesn't match my uncles, who never did, and he is mostly right.
We say it about referees, a lot haven't played, and we have particular viewpoints on most of their decisions and performances, and don't get me started on linesmen, I absolutely know I could do better :-)
|
|
|
Post by stevek192 on Sept 23, 2016 9:29:48 GMT
No matter whatsoever. You can never have played the game and yet still have a better understanding of the game than those who have played. Just look at the number of ex players who actually manage teams successfully! Very very few. Anyone can have an opinion and everyones opinion is valid as that is what it is - their opinion and it is what a forum is about.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 9:56:59 GMT
First bite...odds on to come from North Cornwall ☺
|
|
basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
|
Post by basel on Sept 23, 2016 10:24:05 GMT
is it at all relevant on a forum if a person has played in adult football at whatever level? does it make any difference? how many have played? have any played in good amateur or semi-pro football? any thoughts from anybody? I played local football for 18 years. I think it helps with an understanding of the game.Watching games,you can be reminded of things you came across in your own playing days. I played in the Cheltenham and Cirencester leagues.Below County level.
|
|
faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
|
Post by faggotygas on Sept 23, 2016 10:34:56 GMT
is it at all relevant on a forum if a person has played in adult football at whatever level? does it make any difference? how many have played? have any played in good amateur or semi-pro football? any thoughts from anybody? Interesting question. I think my answer would be, sometimes, but not necessarily all the time. I think you can have certain insights, especially if you've coached a bit as well - I certainly remember a few things I've picked up at conferences etc.
It might also make you aware of your own limitations!
|
|
faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
|
Post by faggotygas on Sept 23, 2016 10:37:41 GMT
No matter whatsoever. You can never have played the game and yet still have a better understanding of the game than those who have played. Just look at the number of ex players who actually manage teams successfully! Very very few. Anyone can have an opinion and everyones opinion is valid as that is what it is - their opinion and it is what a forum is about. Not sure about this comment Steve. With the exceptions of Jose Morinho and Arsene Wenger, I can't think of many succesful coaches who haven't played the game at a decent level.
|
|
Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
|
Post by Peter Parker on Sept 23, 2016 11:08:03 GMT
It’s an interesting one. Yes and No I guess is the answer and even then there is a difference I suspect to a professional ‘dressing room’ training all the time and playing at lower levels when the dynamic will be a bit different.
I guess playing or having played can help, or make your observations better, if you can stand back, watch and be objective.
Like anything though if you only see what you want to see, whether you are a player or a fan it probably makes little difference.
I wouldn’t say football is unique but (in this country at least) players and fans are probably closer in terms of where you are pulled from than other sports. How often do we say x footballer is as thick as pig s**t? That players observations are probably no better than the ones who were suggesting DC out by Christmas on FB and is a thick footballer, one who is used to be told what to do all the time with seemingly no, or little free thought of their own any better than a fan who has watched loads of games and can form a considered opinion?
It’s interesting to hear from pundits who have been at the top of the game and listening to their opinions and observations. That is something a fan or even a low level footballer cannot have. BUT only if they can articulate it like a Carragher or a Neville compared to a Michael Owen say
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 11:15:30 GMT
It doesn't matter to me.
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,394
|
Post by warehamgas on Sept 23, 2016 12:56:11 GMT
It would be a very boring and a snobbish situation if it did matter. Football is the game of the masses and not everyone needs to have played to have an opinion. I played Central Welsh League against some good teams for a couple of years but that doesn't mean anything when watching Rovers. Blimey, I'd hate think that people could only comment if they knew what they were talking about....most forums would be obsolete!!! UTG!
|
|
|
Post by mrbluesky on Sept 23, 2016 14:35:41 GMT
good input from people on here and of course everyone has a right to opinions and comment on the beautiful game. my ex wife never played but had a very good understanding of the game,she once had a heated discussion with ex swindon player don rogers over an offside decision after a match in an obscure league against a team he was manager of. i was quite impressed as she was right on the point she was making. i do actually believe that playing makes you more aware of the amazing technique,skill and movement in the professional game.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 14:58:30 GMT
I was terrible when younger could not even get into Mountstevens team! Played a lot in my years in the Army as goalkeeper to a good standard.
|
|
o2o2bo2ba
Joined: August 2014
Posts: 6,918
Member is Online
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 23, 2016 15:54:01 GMT
It can't mean much.
Some of the greatest players have made poor coaches, and vice versa.
Take dc for example, he's played at a very decent level, but I'm sure he will manage at a higher level than he played.
Mourinho is another example. No one had heard of him in his playing career!
|
|
|
Post by mangogas15 on Sept 23, 2016 21:19:18 GMT
We who played to whatever level think we know the game and it makes me laugh when i see coaches at kids football screaming at the kids to get back in defence when my missus turns round and says 'yeah but there's a big gap between midfield and attack every time an attack breaks down. So the answer is no it doesn't matter. It's a simpler game than some people make it.
|
|
Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,293
|
Post by Igitur on Sept 24, 2016 7:01:33 GMT
We should not exclude people from offering an opinion on a football game, player or official.
It's debatable what some ex-players bring to TV punditry: Savage (agghhhh), the Nevilles, Ian Wright, Crooks, Owen and many more have been useless, (but that is also affected by how articulate they are in front of a microphone.) It drives me crazy when managers who have relegated a team or been a disaster have the nerve, or been invited by TV, to talk tactics and analyse a game saying what should have been done.
It does annoy me when certain managers, in answer to criticism, say, "What do you know, you've never managed?" Well most of us are not Royal Shakespeare Company trained, had pictures displayed in the Royal Academy or gone to the Royal Academies of Dramatic Art or Music etc but we can spot a pup when we see one.
It's a different thing being a ref, there is no doubt a kind of culture (I use that word loosely) amongst players and communication is so important. As a low level ex-player, it particularly aggrieves me to see so many yellows when the conditions are wet and tackles are missed and look bad, but are not.
I would say that on the terraces (or in bars) knowledge of the laws of the game is useful and may prevent some arguments in the Blackthorn end!
|
|
|
Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Sept 24, 2016 7:02:19 GMT
I played in local football a long time ago, mainly for the enjoyment, but with one eye on the sidelines in case that bloke in a raincoat and cloth cap was a scout :-) Never happened and I was a bit disappointed. Tactics and formations have become so complex since then that when watching it on the box I sometimes try to keep up with a team's movement off the ball to see the formations they're forming. Not easy because of the speed of it all, the camera zooming in on things and because we watch for the excitement more than anything else. I was watching Chelsea on the box a while back and was amazed at how easily they went from 5-3-2 to 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 - and probably a few other formations too - so fluently during the game as needs arose. They were so well drilled! The modern game is a chessboard, no doubt about that. One thing that I do benefit from having played the game, albeit in a cowfield or on an ex rubbish tip, is the instinctive part of it. I understand how that bloke missed a sitter or sliced that clearance into his own net. Not many commentators do though but co-commentators as ex players usually pick up on that. Even in today's modern game where the players are so well drilled, the cracking goals, missed sitters, own goals, mistimed tackles and sliced clearances are still the same as when I played. It's a level playing field in that respect.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Sept 25, 2016 12:32:40 GMT
This is an interesting question. I think it makes a big difference but I suspect we are talking about 2 different things.
It should make no difference at all to expressing an opinion on how your team is playing or the game you watched. Most of us have watched 100s of games of football and within our own knowledge and experience we can interpret them. As fans we all look for and appreciate slightly different things within the game according to our own preferences and biases. That is kind of what being a fan is all about. You can be better of worse at interpreting a game but any opinion on the game is valid (and also open to challenge) - I'm just one fan looking at the game from my perspective based on the 300-400 matches I've watched before with the accumulated bias and emotional attachments I've formed. It is just a set of subjective opinions and I don't aspire to anything else. I want to watch the game as a fan and appreciate it as fan and offer an opinion as a fan and debate it as a fan. I don't think I have any right whatsoever to assume that I know more about the way football works than managers or players or professionals but I am damn well entitled to express my frustration at them and try and work out why something is happening that I don't like. That's expressing an opinion as a fan - as a kind of emotionally invested critic. That's the level on which I want to appreciate the game. I'm not interested in anything else really.
But I never played the game to any standard whatsoever. So while I can appreciate (on my own terms) tactics, body language, skillsets etc I'm never really going to know about the details. In other words I can appreciate the 'WHAT' as well as anyone else I think (and I think that's all most people are ultimately interested in) but I'll never have much handle on the 'HOW' and the 'WHY'. In other words I can see what a player or a team is doing and have an opinion about that but I'll only ever have a very limited notion of how you go about doing it and why you might do it because I've not played the game to a good standard. This is where there is a depth of understanding that can really only come with having played the game at a serious level I think and it is likely to effect the way in which you watch and appreciate the game. It's a bit like I can go to a nice restaurant and perfectly easily express what I like and don't like about the food and the atmosphere - but I haven't got a clue how I'd go about making the food or designing the décor. But I know what it is and whether I like it or not and that's really the only level on which I want to experience it. Someone who was a chef or restaurant manager would be having a different type of experience to me because they would know how and why you might do those things and make those decisions - and in fact they are likely to be a lot more forgiving because they will understand better the whole context of the decisions/actions taken in a much more complete way than I ever could. That's the difference between being a 'professional' and a fan/critic. But I don't want to be a 'professional' watcher and I'm not all that interested in that perspective.
It's also about how you watch a game. Watching it as a fan and watching it as a professional observer are 2 very different things. I've seen some very experienced, very knowledgable football people go completely bananas when analysing their own team because their professional judgement got compromised by their emotional attachment. We are not watching the game in the same way a professional scout/manager/pundit would watch the game but that doesn't really matter because we're getting something completely different out of the experience as well. They are always striving for objectivity - by definition we will always be biased and we embrace that; and that's not a bad thing because that's how most of us want to watch the game I think.
|
|
Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
|
Post by Rex on Sept 27, 2016 13:01:15 GMT
No matter whatsoever. You can never have played the game and yet still have a better understanding of the game than those who have played. Just look at the number of ex players who actually manage teams successfully! Very very few. Anyone can have an opinion and everyones opinion is valid as that is what it is - their opinion and it is what a forum is about. Not sure about this comment Steve. With the exceptions of Jose Morinho and Arsene Wenger, I can't think of many succesful coaches who haven't played the game at a decent level. Alex Ferguson hardly had a stellar career as a player, more of a journeyman than anything else.
|
|
faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
|
Post by faggotygas on Sept 27, 2016 13:07:37 GMT
Not sure about this comment Steve. With the exceptions of Jose Morinho and Arsene Wenger, I can't think of many succesful coaches who haven't played the game at a decent level. Alex Ferguson hardly had a stellar career as a player, more of a journeyman than anything else. 171 goals in 317 appearances, mostly in the scottish 1st division, Scottish League top scorer, 41 apperances for Rangers, 7 international caps. And this was when Scotland were respected. Surely within the definition of 'played at a decent level'? 6 clubs in 17 years is a journeyman?
|
|