crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
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Post by crater on Sept 18, 2016 9:34:33 GMT
Anyone know his goal scoring stats as a starter compared to coming on as a sub? Haven't sat down to work it out but from memory I think it must be something like 5 or 6 as a starter with maybe around 20 or so as a sub. Does this say that we get the best of him as an impact player?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 9:48:06 GMT
No, it says he hasn't started as many games as games he's come on as a sub in.
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Post by gasheadnaboo on Sept 18, 2016 9:58:24 GMT
Not half as effective as a starter as he is an impact sub imho, nice lad and cracking finisher he just doesn't possess a great footballing brain, not sure how much longer Darrell can keep persevering with him if he doesn't start scoring in the 3rd tier.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 18, 2016 9:59:12 GMT
Yes, a point well observed and discussed amongst some of us too.
I used to think Andy Williams and Ben Swallow were used as impact players too.
Ellis does seem to have more of an influence when his introduced late on in a condensed performance.
But his inclusion as a starter is valid and should be explored. I thought v Walsall he linked very well with Matty, perhaps the best partnership up front atm.
Ellis has worked hard on his heading. He seems to make most headers as I've noticed that little bit extra in his jumps, and more importantly he time them better.
This is Ellis season to impress and cement his place as a all round striker. He's been with us a long time now without actually securing a regular place and for some, jury is still out as to whether we have seen the best of him yet.
I like him. Give it time, his goals return may not be as good when he is sub, but he does make valuable contributions to the team, like the assist for equaliser yesterday..
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Post by laughinggas on Sept 18, 2016 10:37:26 GMT
As his main competitor is Gaffney then it's up to Gaffers to come of the bench, make a difference and push for a place.
Really it's a pointless thread. If Ellis came of the bench in 5 games and scored 5 goals there would be a thread saying he must start!
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Post by chelt_gas on Sept 18, 2016 12:45:25 GMT
Statistics are no substitute for judgment. If he looks dangerous and is contributing to the team then this has greater significance that a pliable statistic. Ellis is a product of the team as much as himself and has barely had a run of games at lower levels, let alone this one. He's a good team player and deserves that chance to show us (and himself) what he's got.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Sept 18, 2016 14:27:31 GMT
Ellis is great in the air, not exactly amazing with his feet.
Gaffney is great with the ball at his feet but not so amazing in the air.
I'm happy with either in the target man role.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 14:37:30 GMT
Seems that with his comments recently DC rates Ellis as 1 of his 2 main strikers so as everyone has faith in Dc perhaps this topic is a waste of time
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crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
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Post by crater on Sept 18, 2016 14:47:32 GMT
Seems that with his comments recently DC rates Ellis as 1 of his 2 main strikers so as everyone has faith in Dc perhaps this topic is a waste of time Its a forum Paddy, agree or disagree with the thread thats fine but I thought the point of a forum was to express a view? Oh and from the start Paddy (unlike some) I have had total faith in our manager (oh wait I'm expressing an opinion again, so sorry!!)
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 18, 2016 15:05:44 GMT
This isn't a useless thread if folk are contributing to it!
I'm not going off topic, because Ellis has started using his head more this season, much like op creator for starting this debate.
Maybe all those whom think it's an awful thread can sit on the bench and wait for an impact or two?!! Haha!
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,293
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Post by Igitur on Sept 18, 2016 15:12:43 GMT
Although I like Ellis, I feel he has a minor temperament problem. Sometimes when things go wrong he stops and his head goes down, but then, to his credit, he realises he shouldn't have stopped and switches back on. There is no reason why he should play 90 mins, there are alternatives with Easter ahead of Gaffney for me until he finds some form. It's good to shake up attacks.
He has been played as an impact striker before and sometimes brought on too late. Perhaps he tries too hard over 90 mins, but he shows he really cares and is committed.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2016 17:42:43 GMT
What I was pointing out was the majority believe DC can do no wrong so why are they disagreeing with his statement about Ellis.not saying people shouldn't have opinions but it does seem strange
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badhand
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 182
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Post by badhand on Sept 18, 2016 18:29:23 GMT
Anyone know his goal scoring stats as a starter compared to coming on as a sub? Haven't sat down to work it out but from memory I think it must be something like 5 or 6 as a starter with maybe around 20 or so as a sub. Does this say that we get the best of him as an impact player? It's a lot closer than you think. I have had a quick scan (so not guaranteeing it is entirely accurate!) but, in all competitons, it's something like 15 goals as a starter and 16 as a sub.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
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Post by irishrover on Sept 18, 2016 21:24:22 GMT
It's a false argument really. Of course Harrison will be more effective as an impact player than when he starts for whole 90 mins because most attacking players do. You come on later, you have more space to play in and you're playing against tired players so the odds are far more in your favour. So the question isn't whether he's better at coming on as an impact player than as a starter because that probably applies to any striker who has ever played the game. The question is whether he's good enough in the long run to be a regular starter at this level. But if people are judging his performances as an impact player as a base level to judge his performances when he starts then they are doing him a massive disservice because you're not comparing like with like. By definition he will nearly always look more dangerous and effective when he plays in short bursts as an impact player - but that doesn't tell you anything very much about Harrison as a player.
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Post by mrbluesky on Sept 18, 2016 21:51:39 GMT
i just think that right now he is our 2nd best striker and its up to gaffney and easter to displace him. for me hes gradually improved under dc and i believe he will get among the goals soon.
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Post by thecuregalore94 on Sept 19, 2016 15:00:59 GMT
I admire his energy, pressurising defenders and the general pace he brings to the game. I'm sure we can all appreciate that it's very difficult to retain that rhythm for 90 minutes, and for that reason I would prefer to see Ellis utilised as an injection of quick feet with about half an hour to go. To make a change at 65-70 minutes lets a speedy and aggressive forward like Ellis completely exploit tiring legs, whilst giving him a respectable look-in. I think to play him for 90 minutes tires him out too much given his demanding work rate, and defenders learn to get used to him which bypasses the element of surprise in the impact sub. At the same time, I wouldn't complain if he harassed defences for a high tempo first half - which I'm convinced he's capable of after the last two seasons.
Undeniably a talent, we will do well to nurture his ability. Only downside to his game is his temper, quite a collection of yellows for a forward...
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Sept 19, 2016 15:49:18 GMT
I think Ellis' game has improved this season.He wins a fair percentage of headers,battles for the ball,he's getting bigger and stronger,looks to play the ball and has an eye for goal.
This does'nt mean he's our best striker and that there is'nt much room for improvement,but in general,he is improving and having a decent season.
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Post by gasheadnaboo on Sept 20, 2016 18:13:49 GMT
What I was pointing out was the majority believe DC can do no wrong so why are they disagreeing with his statement about Ellis.not saying people shouldn't have opinions but it does seem strange DC has dropped Harrison tonight.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 18:20:25 GMT
Ellis is not a 90 min player tonight.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 14:29:36 GMT
But the 3 subs definitely made a difference
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