1883
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 83
|
Post by 1883 on May 29, 2015 13:12:44 GMT
I don't really get the point of this?
I don't care if he carries on playing 4-4-2 next season or whether he plays 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2 or a diamond midfield, so long as it's successful.
I also don't believe that you can play the same way every game and expect to never have to change/be forced into changing your style of play.
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,260
|
Post by kingswood Polak on May 29, 2015 13:31:20 GMT
Just to clear up a couple of things I personally do not have a preferred formation - it could be 4-4 - 2 , 3- 5- 2 or even 4 - 3- 3 but I won't bother paying good money if we adopt the JW approach from two seasons ago and play one up front 4 - 5 - 1 - negative football - home and away - and barely anything to get excited about. To be honest with our fan base (and therefore income) and budget compared to most teams in L2 - I would see it as a disgrace. It's not winning football but containing football and would like to hear reassurances that DC will play attack -minded formations in L2 - as he should with reference to above. Secondly, I was getting bored of threads saying " my god Swindon took fewer supporters than us to Wembley " or "we've got the best manager in the world " . Ciao. Thing is Mark, DC made a statement of intent when he got the job. We would play attacking football with wingers. The radio Bristol interview was very well received & a fair few bought ST's on the back of it. It's one thing to say how you would like to play but another to then be in a position where you have to change that. To me, it was evident that he tried his way but we had a poor start, I am told that DC was literally one game away from being sacked. Can you remember the interview where he blamed the pressure of us fans and even saying he put the shutters up so that his players would not have to put up with the abuse ? I thought it was obvious that his tactics changed rapidly after that. I am no expert, you can probably tell lol. I would imagine that any manager will have to be able to adjust his set up on a match by match basis &, fair play to the guy, his substitutions worked much of the time. He is still very much learning his trade and so I won't be so ready to dive into any mistakes in the coming season. I think we genuinely have to cut the guy some slack. That's just my own opinion. I think it's pretty obvious that he likes to play attack minded football but that we have to adjust with every game. I hope he is as successful in his ability to change games, with tactical substitutions, as he was this season
|
|
|
Post by Gregory Stevens on May 29, 2015 13:37:30 GMT
451 can be attacking. 433 can be attacking. 442 is not generally the most attacking formation, believe it or not. There are so many variations. Granted in lower leagues 442 is a formation all players understand, but we had the 442 with Lambert and Walker, which is distinctly different than the 442 we see under dc.
It's about playing a team to its strengths or playing a team against oppositions weaknesses. One up top requires a certain type of player up top, and also requires certain midfielders.
You can't play one up top without one or two attacking midfielders.
Holliway once said in you need one who can hold the ball, one who can run with the ball and one who can pass. That's far, far more important than where the players stand at kick off.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on May 29, 2015 15:30:21 GMT
451 can be attacking. 433 can be attacking. 442 is not generally the most attacking formation, believe it or not. There are so many variations. Granted in lower leagues 442 is a formation all players understand, but we had the 442 with Lambert and Walker, which is distinctly different than the 442 we see under dc. It's about playing a team to its strengths or playing a team against oppositions weaknesses. One up top requires a certain type of player up top, and also requires certain midfielders. You can't play one up top without one or two attacking midfielders. Holliway once said in you need one who can hold the ball, one who can run with the ball and one who can pass. That's far, far more important than where the players stand at kick off. Exactly 4-5-1 doesn't have to be defensive - it can be used to inject width and attacking central midfield players into the game. Also, there's this lunatic idea that simply adding players up top automatically makes a side more attacking when in reality 4-3-3 tends to be used by managers in a defensive manner in order to press high clog up the middle of the park. The formation is not as important as where those ,lines of players are positioned on the pitch. Are they playing a high line? Are the wide players drifting in or staying wide? Are the strikers playing up top together or is one dropping off? etc.
|
|
harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,424
|
Post by harrybuckle on May 29, 2015 16:01:00 GMT
every game is a project -so tactics change-DC
|
|
c13
Rickie Lambert
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 424
|
Post by c13 on May 29, 2015 16:41:34 GMT
If this was the Football Manager 2015 forum, the OP was going to be kicked out mercilessly
Also, completely agree with everyone saying that 4-3-3/4-5-1 isn't by default offensive or defensive. Even a 3-5-2 can be offensive depending on how you play it, just look at van Gaal's Netherlands formation back in the World Cup.
I understand your desire to reach out to the manager but you're basically trying to tell him how to do his job RIGHT AFTER he put us back in the League. And if you buying a ST or not depends on your enjoyment rather than results, well, I guess you're supporting the wrong club...?
|
|
|
Post by Westcountry Gas on May 29, 2015 17:19:54 GMT
He always has and always will play 2 up front, whether it be 4-4-2, 3-5-2 or 4-3-1-2. I think playing 2 up front is perfect in the lower leagues, the premier league and championship teams are lining up in a 4-2-3-1 every week because they have the David Silva type number 10 behind the striker and the 2 men in midfield are proper footballers, plus full backs act as a wingers. In lower league football, your midfield 2 are mainly going to be battlers, your full backs are going to be cautious, and your centre backs hoof ball merchants, one of your front men are going to be a big boy, and the 2 wingers are going to have there work there bollocks off supporting the full backs. The Football will be a mixture of hoofball into the channels and silky stuff like Lines playing nice little balls in midfield or Brown & Monkhouse marauding down the left wing. I think over a 10 month & 50 plus game season, DC and the players have proven they know how to get results and that being such a honest decent group of blokes can also help massively to.
|
|
|
Post by markczgas on May 29, 2015 17:38:08 GMT
I see the solution here. Sponsored tactics. We sponsor matches, balls, shirts, back of shorts etc. "Today's tactics are brought to you by Markcz, who has paid £250 to see us play his favoured formation." Thank god my school encouraged us to have opinions - even about footie, which I know about a bit. What's yours ? The letter isn't solely about tactics if you read carefully
|
|
|
Post by markczgas on May 29, 2015 17:42:40 GMT
If this was the Football Manager 2015 forum, the OP was going to be kicked out mercilessly Also, completely agree with everyone saying that 4-3-3/4-5-1 isn't by default offensive or defensive. Even a 3-5-2 can be offensive depending on how you play it, just look at van Gaal's Netherlands formation back in the World Cup. I understand your desire to reach out to the manager but you're basically trying to tell him how to do his job RIGHT AFTER he put us back in the League. And if you buying a ST or not depends on your enjoyment rather than results, well, I guess you're supporting the wrong club...? Interesting you think one small supporter is telling a football manager (DC) how to do his job !? It's about supporters like you and me having a voice and being able to ask questions and not just sit and wait for information - to "maybe" be dribbled our way. If we were a successful club, which was properly run then maybe I would have confidence in many/all aspects of the club ! My view is that it hasn't been and still isn't. What do you think ? As someone else mentioned it is now club policy not to reveal info about player's injuries etc . I think that's a bit strange.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 17:48:13 GMT
Come on Mark, writing to a manager and asking him to guarantee a formation is just plain daft.
The thing with season tickets is you pay your money and you take your chance, you're promised nothing more than 23 games and priority on allocations.
|
|
c13
Rickie Lambert
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 424
|
Post by c13 on May 29, 2015 17:56:14 GMT
Like I said, maybe you didn't realize it but the letter did come across as "hey I like the fact that you did X, so maybe keep doing X or I won't be buying a season ticket! Also keep us informed about your tactics constantly please."
I get that you want to instigate communication between club and fans, and it's fine, we all would like that and some of us have attempted other things in the past as well, but you're doing it the wrong way.
|
|
|
Post by Gregory Stevens on May 29, 2015 19:25:40 GMT
He always has and always will play 2 up front, whether it be 4-4-2, 3-5-2 or 4-3-1-2. I think playing 2 up front is perfect in the lower leagues, the premier league and championship teams are lining up in a 4-2-3-1 every week because they have the David Silva type number 10 behind the striker and the 2 men in midfield are proper footballers, plus full backs act as a wingers. In lower league football, your midfield 2 are mainly going to be battlers, your full backs are going to be cautious, and your centre backs hoof ball merchants, one of your front men are going to be a big boy, and the 2 wingers are going to have there work there bollocks off supporting the full backs. The Football will be a mixture of hoofball into the channels and silky stuff like Lines playing nice little balls in midfield or Brown & Monkhouse marauding down the left wing. I think over a 10 month & 50 plus game season, DC and the players have proven they know how to get results and that being such a honest decent group of blokes can also help massively to. This x10
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,260
|
Post by kingswood Polak on May 30, 2015 0:16:48 GMT
He always has and always will play 2 up front, whether it be 4-4-2, 3-5-2 or 4-3-1-2. I think playing 2 up front is perfect in the lower leagues, the premier league and championship teams are lining up in a 4-2-3-1 every week because they have the David Silva type number 10 behind the striker and the 2 men in midfield are proper footballers, plus full backs act as a wingers. In lower league football, your midfield 2 are mainly going to be battlers, your full backs are going to be cautious, and your centre backs hoof ball merchants, one of your front men are going to be a big boy, and the 2 wingers are going to have there work there bollocks off supporting the full backs. The Football will be a mixture of hoofball into the channels and silky stuff like Lines playing nice little balls in midfield or Brown & Monkhouse marauding down the left wing. I think over a 10 month & 50 plus game season, DC and the players have proven they know how to get results and that being such a honest decent group of blokes can also help massively to. This x10 Great post. Totally in agreement
|
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on May 30, 2015 18:24:53 GMT
If this was the Football Manager 2015 forum, the OP was going to be kicked out mercilessly Also, completely agree with everyone saying that 4-3-3/4-5-1 isn't by default offensive or defensive. Even a 3-5-2 can be offensive depending on how you play it, just look at van Gaal's Netherlands formation back in the World Cup. I understand your desire to reach out to the manager but you're basically trying to tell him how to do his job RIGHT AFTER he put us back in the League. And if you buying a ST or not depends on your enjoyment rather than results, well, I guess you're supporting the wrong club...? Interesting you think one small supporter is telling a football manager (DC) how to do his job !? It's about supporters like you and me having a voice and being able to ask questions and not just sit and wait for information - to "maybe" be dribbled our way. If we were a successful club, which was properly run then maybe I would have confidence in many/all aspects of the club ! My view is that it hasn't been and still isn't. What do you think ? As someone else mentioned it is now club policy not to reveal info about player's injuries etc . I think that's a bit strange. Hi Mark, I can understand you wanting to know the style of play but asking him to guarantee a formation or his tactics, well he's never going to reveal that or else he would be handing on a plate to every manager in the league how he is going to play. I'm sure you realise that sometimes it's going to be horses for courses or basing your tactics on either your strengths or the perceived weaknesses of your opponents. Of course he could look at your letter and think to himself that if he replies in such a way you'll buy 2 season tickets but what will you do if in the first game of the season he plays completely different to how you want him to, ask for your money back ? If you've noticed he has approached the vast majority of his games in a positive way, where he's needed to change the formation he's done that. I don't think we can insist he plays a certain way or else we won't support him, if for example he plays in exactly the same way this season and achieves the same results I know I'll be more than happy, however if we still achieve the same results with boring 1-0 victories I'll also be happy. I hope you get a reply from him but don't expect him to be as free with his plans for next season as you'd like him to be.
|
|
bone13
Joined: April 2015
Posts: 9
|
Post by bone13 on May 30, 2015 20:10:42 GMT
Another thing to take into account are injuries. God forbid we have an injury crisis, but it could happen. Any team with 3,4 or 5 key players injured at the same time will have to adapt and change tactics to suit the particular strenghts and weaknesses of the players available.
|
|
|
Post by markczgas on May 30, 2015 22:46:24 GMT
Interesting you think one small supporter is telling a football manager (DC) how to do his job !? It's about supporters like you and me having a voice and being able to ask questions and not just sit and wait for information - to "maybe" be dribbled our way. If we were a successful club, which was properly run then maybe I would have confidence in many/all aspects of the club ! My view is that it hasn't been and still isn't. What do you think ? As someone else mentioned it is now club policy not to reveal info about player's injuries etc . I think that's a bit strange. Hi Mark, I can understand you wanting to know the style of play but asking him to guarantee a formation or his tactics, well he's never going to reveal that or else he would be handing on a plate to every manager in the league how he is going to play. I'm sure you realise that sometimes it's going to be horses for courses or basing your tactics on either your strengths or the perceived weaknesses of your opponents. Of course he could look at your letter and think to himself that if he replies in such a way you'll buy 2 season tickets but what will you do if in the first game of the season he plays completely different to how you want him to, ask for your money back ? If you've noticed he has approached the vast majority of his games in a positive way, where he's needed to change the formation he's done that. I don't think we can insist he plays a certain way or else we won't support him, if for example he plays in exactly the same way this season and achieves the same results I know I'll be more than happy, however if we still achieve the same results with boring 1-0 victories I'll also be happy. I hope you get a reply from him but don't expect him to be as free with his plans for next season as you'd like him to be. Hello, I'm sure you realise there was SOME bluff in my letter. I just hope DC plays with 2 up front - and that we have a positive mindset - I don't think this is giving anything away. I think we were served up a pile of crap 2 years ago (played like the away side at home !!) and even this season just gone we ground our way to wins at home and god help those who had to suffer through those "poor" away performances. We get big crowds, get good money through the turnstiles so we should expect our club, our manager to produce attacking football, taking the game to the opposition (we say every season let's make The Mem a fortress, don't we ? it can only happen if the manager get's his team playing attacking football with a high tempo) and my letter is about enquiring into DC's intent for next season. He can choose to ignore letters like mine, he can do what he wants ..... of course I and you know that. If you look back over most seasons in most divisions I bet you teams that got promoted were those who played in settled formations with 2 up front. I hope DC will not tinker too much and have a go. I thought he played a cautious approach for much of the season, e.g. playing two centre midfielders deep, and a right back who got vertigo if he crossed the half-way line ! - I don't think he'll get away with that same approach next season - where many draws will turn to defeats. Just my two-penneth P.s. I don't expect a reply - just stimulating some debate - but i hope Twentyman will interview him and us supporters will get to ask questions like my couple. A Q and A would also be good, wouldn't it. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by markczgas on May 30, 2015 22:51:36 GMT
Like I said, maybe you didn't realize it but the letter did come across as "hey I like the fact that you did X, so maybe keep doing X or I won't be buying a season ticket! Also keep us informed about your tactics constantly please." I get that you want to instigate communication between club and fans, and it's fine, we all would like that and some of us have attempted other things in the past as well, but you're doing it the wrong way. Writing a letter is the wrong way ? Calling for a Q & A is wrong ? hmmm, I think they're pretty reasonable things and are examples of supporters engaging with the club. You might not like what I've written - I'm cool with that ! What do you want ...... ? Do you think things are all as they should be with BRFC because we got promoted ?
|
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on May 31, 2015 1:25:16 GMT
I agree a Question and Answer session at the Mem would be good but I guess that has to come from the Supporters Club so like a good member I'll write to those in charge of it and ask if they have any intention of asking for one
|
|
|
Post by interceptor on May 31, 2015 7:36:32 GMT
Mark - your letter might at least spike a little more PR/general communication and I agree with your request for more info on injured players. I think you have had a little more stick than your post deserved.
|
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on May 31, 2015 10:09:32 GMT
Whilst I agree it would be good to know about the condition of injured players I think the lack of information comes from the manager not wanting to give opposing teams any advantage of knowing who we have available to play. I guess we have to respect his judgement on that side of things however frustrating it might be for us.
|
|