dagnogo
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 26, 2015 15:21:32 GMT
Obviously you can't point out where some clubs have succeded and ours have failed without "board bashing". The board have been in total control of the management structure of the club and the club have failed on the pitch. You can't avoid criticising them.
Not suggesting we have the means to follow Southampton's model but Ward was signed because the board wanted to bring back the mythical "Twerton spirit", McGhee because he turned up last minute and fancied it, and Buckle on Nick's word alone.
Like I said PT and LL made some duff signings but if we'd had someone in place to oversee recruitment maybe we'd not have waited a month for Dave Penney, or endured Buckle.
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dagnogo
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 26, 2015 15:23:47 GMT
If Lennie had to go why not replace him instead of forcing an assistant on PT? The DoF model isn't a failure purely because Lennie signed Mark Wright.
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Post by Curly Wurly on Jan 26, 2015 16:15:30 GMT
Sacking Lennie, a man with more knowledge of and respect within the game than 50 Nick Higgs's, to try and cut PT off at the knees, was when this decline started. I don't think we'd have gone down from L1 with both of them in post. I'm also convinced of this. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 27, 2015 8:39:42 GMT
If Lennie had to go why not replace him instead of forcing an assistant on PT? The DoF model isn't a failure purely because Lennie signed Mark Wright. By the time LL left there was a number of failures, Regan, Blizzard, Williams, Duffy etc all this on a £3.5m wage budget which was probably at least a million more than we needed to spend. At the time LL went nobody actually knew what he was doing so were happy to accept we only needed a manager/PT in charge. |
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LPGas
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Post by LPGas on Jan 27, 2015 10:38:34 GMT
Sacking Lennie, a man with more knowledge of and respect within the game than 50 Nick Higgs's, to try and cut PT off at the knees, was when this decline started. I don't think we'd have gone down from L1 with both of them in post. I'm also convinced of this. This was the turning point, but lets remember the melt down on the Forum "What does LL do?" "Let's sack LL and use the money to get in a striker", and those people post on here! Sorry "moan" on here |
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dagnogo
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 27, 2015 10:48:55 GMT
I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. But it's for us to get it wrong and those in power to get it right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 11:20:34 GMT
I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. But it's for us to get it wrong and those in power to get it right. They got it "Very" right when DC was appointed ! |
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dagnogo
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 27, 2015 11:35:58 GMT
I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. But it's for us to get it wrong and those in power to get it right. They got it "Very" right when DC was appointed ! I think Higgs deserves full credit for backing DC in the face of disgusting abuse and criticism earlier in the year. |
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jan 27, 2015 11:46:45 GMT
I'm also convinced of this. This was the turning point, but lets remember the melt down on the Forum "What does LL do?" "Let's sack LL and use the money to get in a striker", and those people post on here! Sorry "moan" on here The chair has called LL the biggest finacial disaster to happen to BRFC. If LL had actually implemented a structure (which depends on if he wanted too or was allowes to) maybe we would be better off. If LL retired or was sacked and we had something in place the idea is you find someone to fit into the clubs ethos. We just keep or kept ripping up and starting again with no plan |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 27, 2015 13:58:29 GMT
Again - saying that it all comes down to whether we sacked or kept LL or not (and I was generally on the fence on that decision at the time) kind of illustrates the point about the lack of structured and clear thinking on the playing side of the club. In the long term success should not be defined by who happens to be the manager or DOF; if you look at consistently successful clubs they are not built around the 'magic manager' theory. They are built on having a good structure that replicates itself no matter who the manager or DOF is. It is not a good model for any organisation to be so reliant on the abilities/performance/luck of a single individual as that's an extremely flimsy basis for success; a lot of football clubs have finally realised this, Rovers don't seem to have done so.
Getting rid of LL was not the big decision in my view - it is perfectly possible he wasn't doing the job properly; I don't know that. The big decision for me was getting away from a structured model of running a football club with someone overseeing wider aspects of the club and instilling some kind of consistency of culture across the playing side (the title of that position matters little) and back to the short term approach of 'let's just appoint a manager throw some money at him and hope for the best and if it doesn't work out we'll thrown him under the bus and repeat until we strike gold/fall to a level at which it's difficult not to be successful.' Ultimately this is an expensive way to fail.
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dagnogo
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 27, 2015 14:42:11 GMT
Exactly what I was trying to say. Sack LL or not, but failing to replace him and therefore packing the structure away and replacing it with Nick's "spend and hope" method was the issue.
Thing is, Nick and chums don't like others spending their money, as they genuinely think they know best - despite the clear evidence to the contrary.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2015 17:35:10 GMT
Thanks ampg that was a good article to read and, if I may say so, typical of the thorough organization you would expect from a Swiss owned club  But even clubs at a lower level have tried to develop something similar and here are some extracts from a report published a few years ago : "Appointing a management team is a very rewarding experience as we are now seeing. Their complementary qualities and the way they get on together is proving to be a great benefit to the club. Their selection and recruitment of players has been quietly deliberate and second to none in terms of building for the future. A process which we as Directors are part of and fully approve. We are now convinced that, at last, equipped with the strong footballing philosophy held by our management team we are heading in the right direction. It is also club policy to develop home grown youngsters into our first team squad.. The standard as we progress up the Football League however gets higher and higher and the club will ensure that the youth staff and standard of coaching keeps pace with and exceeds the pace of league progress." Ron Craig Bristol Rovers FC Chairman's Statement March 20th 2008 Sadly we replaced that with a philosophy of " I appoint a manager and let him manage" Sadly we replaced that with Nick Higgs. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 18:12:13 GMT
Sacking Lennie, a man with more knowledge of and respect within the game than 50 Nick Higgs's, to try and cut PT off at the knees, was when this decline started.I don't think we'd have gone down from L1 with both of them in post. In a way I agree with that but the major point, for me, was Trollopes inability to put together a balanced squad of players and give said players long term contracts and wages way above their ability. I take into account the signings when Lawrence was holding his hand. That of course was sanctioned by Higgs and the board so the blame lies at their feet. Credit for giving Trollope the chance to see if he was capable of being a Manager and backing him but getting promoted, without forward planning, was like a problem rolled into one. Being taken by surprise, rabbits in headlights kind of, is how I find the board reacted to promotion and what followed the two seasons after. Hence throwing money at something they didn't know how to control and spending way beyond Rovers means.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 27, 2015 20:36:47 GMT
How can you forward plan for promotion unless you are virtually secure of going up with a month or two to go at the end of the season. Regardless we didn't do a bad job as finished 12th for two seasons running.
We then asked Trollope to take the step up to be manager like we did with DC this summer, personally I thought PT would have done a far better job, in Div 1, than DC has done in the Conference.
As far as throwing money at the problem wasn't that what LL tried to do and NH tried to rein in the wage budget?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 23:16:25 GMT
How can you forward plan for promotion unless you are virtually secure of going up with a month or two to go at the end of the season. Regardless we didn't do a bad job as finished 12th for two seasons running. We then asked Trollope to take the step up to be manager like we did with DC this summer, personally I thought PT would have done a far better job, in Div 1, than DC has done in the Conference. As far as throwing money at the problem wasn't that what LL tried to do and NH tried to rein in the wage budget? Near enough the same point I made. As for your last paragraph,that really made me laugh. Nick Higgs reined in the wages,seriously? only this season have the wages and contracts been reined in. Even you can see that,surely? |
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Post by a more piratey game on Jan 27, 2015 23:25:11 GMT
The chair has called LL the biggest finacial disaster to happen to BRFC. did he explain what he meant by this PP, and if not do you have an opinion as to what he meant please? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 0:28:36 GMT
The chair has called LL the biggest finacial disaster to happen to BRFC. did he explain what he meant by this PP, and if not do you have an opinion as to what he meant please? I know what a fecking disaster, got us to mid table league 1 the git! |
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jan 28, 2015 8:14:41 GMT
The chair has called LL the biggest finacial disaster to happen to BRFC. did he explain what he meant by this PP, and if not do you have an opinion as to what he meant please? Hi AMPG, it was basically Lennie convinced us to sign the cheques on all those expensive 3 year deals.
That's the short and sweet of it. Lennie wasn't delivering value for money as a DoF.
Whether that was because BRFC actually didn't know what they wanted him to do or Lennie saw it as an easy ride who knows
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Post by laughinggas on Jan 28, 2015 12:20:17 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the better DOF's not ex managers?
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Post by a more piratey game on Jan 28, 2015 12:48:31 GMT
did he explain what he meant by this PP, and if not do you have an opinion as to what he meant please? Hi AMPG, it was basically Lennie convinced us to sign the cheques on all those expensive 3 year deals.
That's the short and sweet of it. Lennie wasn't delivering value for money as a DoF.
Whether that was because BRFC actually didn't know what they wanted him to do or Lennie saw it as an easy ride who knows
thanks Spidey - I think that makes sense. I remember Trolls explaining that they'd decided to let the good players go as they thought that they'd taken the club as high as they were able (which was probably true in hindsight) and that the board had backed them to buy better to go for the Championship. Where it went wrong was that better (ie more expensive) turned out to be worse
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