Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 5, 2014 15:50:42 GMT
Seriously - damned for no news then damned for a statement confirming that unfortunately no real news to share! Plus feedback on grammar, wording and spelling..... On balance, in their shoes I'd say nothing until I absolutely had to I took the positive that it was confirmation it was going ahead.
As for it not being in use for 8 months potentially, as long as it is built to full spec the opportunity is there to get people using the other facilities the ones that in theory should generate money up and running even if the football isn't there.
There you go a positive message from a miserable cynic when it comes to Rovers
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Post by Big Dave on Jun 5, 2014 15:57:33 GMT
Big Dave you need to leave this list. You are becoming as cynical as the rest. Nick held up a picture of the UWE (you know, the one DC shows to all new prospects) and you all believe it. But seriously, the new stadium will not start for a while yet, so forget the start of next season. Carstairs put paid to that. Or shall we blame NH because he put Carstairs up to it?As I said earlier it is happening at full spec, but not starting immediately. NH said the summer which I believe runs till about early Sept, so plenty of scope yet. There is much of great interest to come shortly. So get ready to fill your boots. I worry because it would be easy (and understandable) for the club to have come out before now and say that legal issues mean there would be a delay until 2016/17...instead we get silence and fans doing maths in their head... ...the inevitable delay announced now means (once more) the fans are being kept in the dark about the biggest step forward this club can make in the last 20-odd years... and Carstairs? He was convenient. Unless 'great interest' means an ability to fuse metal or pour concrete at an amazingly fast speed, then I am yet another fan who will lose my optimism and pride in supporting my club and turn to cynicism and vitriol towards those who are running it...
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toteend
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 305
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Post by toteend on Jun 5, 2014 16:05:58 GMT
Carstairs wasn't convenient. He's just a nobody with a big gob.
I feel positive vibes now.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 16:12:03 GMT
Big Dave you need to leave this list. You are becoming as cynical as the rest. Nick held up a picture of the UWE (you know, the one DC shows to all new prospects) and you all believe it. But seriously, the new stadium will not start for a while yet, so forget the start of next season. Carstairs put paid to that. Or shall we blame NH because he put Carstairs up to it? As I said earlier it is happening at full spec, but not starting immediately. NH said the summer which I believe runs till about early Sept, so plenty of scope yet. There is much of great interest to come shortly. So get ready to fill your boots. Say for example the Stadium work starts in September at the very latest, and according to reports in that past it's a 62 week build. The completion date will be something like November 2015, and the stadium will be empty and not in use for 8 months. Seems to me like the timings are going to be a nightmare. I thought it was a positive interview. yes bits worry me but there again this is Rovers we are talking about. As for the time line, would it not be dependent on what league we are in. I know the FL does not like teams moving mid season, but I am sure that the Conference has allowed it. Also the stadium would have to pass its safety tests first, so a few development games with free tickets, followed by a few concerts or the like would help.
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Post by Bath Gas on Jun 5, 2014 16:13:46 GMT
At least something has been said, even though it's not much - I feel a bit more positive now, which is an improvement on feeling slightly sick when reading all the rumours.
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Post by Big Dave on Jun 5, 2014 16:19:58 GMT
Carstairs wasn't convenient. He's just a nobody with a big gob. I feel positive vibes now. Ignoring legal problems, why is there no announcement about the time-scale?
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Post by michaelb on Jun 5, 2014 16:30:59 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is just a statement published for the sake of making a statement? Nothing to announce, awkwardly worded in parts, banging on about budget rather than how we can actually win games and nothing about how we can build the UWE on the last announced timescale (when to do so we should (at the latest) have started building at the beginning of this week...) Our standards have become pretty low Come on be fair, anyone would think we were a football league club
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jun 5, 2014 17:00:21 GMT
It seems complicated to me, these 'pre-commencement planning conditions' eg. Is that things like 'there will be no loud machinery working after 5 o'clock' eg? Or 'the area will be guarded by a security firm'? You know,relatively normal things,but if not pre arranged and sorted might lead to problems. Is this it please.
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on Jun 5, 2014 17:10:37 GMT
Carstairs wasn't convenient. He's just a nobody with a big gob. I feel positive vibes now. Ignoring legal problems, why is there no announcement about the time-scale? There can't be a time scale until the Secretary of State gives a final no to listing. We already know it's a 63 week build time, we just have to wait for a start date.
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Post by Big Dave on Jun 5, 2014 17:23:25 GMT
It seems complicated to me, these 'pre-commencement planning conditions' eg. Is that things like 'there will be no loud machinery working after 5 o'clock' eg? Or 'the area will be guarded by a security firm'? You know,relatively normal things,but if not pre arranged and sorted might lead to problems. Is this it please. The S106 (from 12+ months ago) covered things like construction times (9-5 mon-fri if I remember), and any contract to build a 21000 stadium will have contained clauses about security of the site. They were all arranged months ago...
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,240
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Post by LPGas on Jun 5, 2014 17:39:30 GMT
Actually the stadium does not have to be complete before we move in. We could for example play with a reduced capacity whilst building work is going on, after all it works with grounds where they are re building a stand. Pre work planning is about deliveries, and the time scale to build. So, by August, ground levelled and piles for main stand in place, September.... and so on.
Took builders 4 months just to renovate a one bedroom flat that I own, so you can see how long it all takes
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Post by Curly Wurly on Jun 5, 2014 18:22:39 GMT
Actually the stadium does not have to be complete before we move in. We could for example play with a reduced capacity whilst building work is going on, after all it works with grounds where they are re building a stand. Pre work planning is about deliveries, and the time scale to build. So, by August, ground levelled and piles for main stand in place, September.... and so on.
Took builders 4 months just to renovate a one bedroom flat that I own, so you can see how long it all takes Name and shame your builders. 4 Months to renovate a one bedroom flat is scandalous! I'm no building expert, but a quick google search identifies what pre-commencement conditions are: "Pre-commencement conditions Planning permission (and other types of consent) may be subject to conditions that require further details to be submitted for the approval of the local planning authority before the development is commenced. It is important in these cases that the applicant or agent allows sufficient time for these details to be prepared, submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority before the commencement of development. Details must be submitted in writing on the appropriate Planning application forms, together with the appropriate fee. The applicant should allow up to 8 weeks for a written decision. Please note that any breach of condition is potentially at risk of enforcement action, and the Council cannot guarantee that any retrospective submission of details will be acceptable or approved."The article here suggests that they can be a pain to developers that have already secured planning permission: www.building.co.uk/uphill-all-the-way-pre-commencement-conditions/5062827.articleDespite all else, Nick's the man to iron these out and get the development underway.
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Post by martyhopkirk on Jun 5, 2014 18:50:16 GMT
However, for now I can tell you that we are in the process of submitting the pre-commencement planning conditions to South Gloucestershire Council to clear the way for work to begin on the site. We are also working on the outstanding items with UWE. As a construction professional 'pre-commencement planning' is not a term I understand. Construction design teams always have unofficial and off the record conversations prior to submission of formal planning permission with the planners and the Local Authority to ascertain were their particular projects sits and what they need to do to tailor it to give it the best chance of success. Once formal planning permission is submitted there are two routes: Delegated powers which a decision can be reached in six weeks or under. Full Council approval which given the size of the project is almost certainly the route your new stadium is faced with and that is a 12 week statutory period for consultation and information gathering is required, before it goes to full Council hearing and public debate before a decision is reached. There are three outcomes from this: - Approved with no conditions (a highly unlikely decision) - Approved with conditions (the most likely outcome) - Rejected outright (unlikely) If rejected one then one goes to appeal, which is a year long process, but the chances of overturning the LA decision is high but introduce a significant delay. If the off the record conversations with the planners are favourable design work and planning continues, whilst the awaiting the formal planning decision. Once a favourable planning decisions has been reached the tender and contract documenets are finalised and the project is sent to tender, which is a four to six month process. On recepiet of the tenders financial checks take place and any value engineering that maybe required on receipt of the tenders is carried out. This is followed by the contractor mobilisation and the contract and build period which will be at least an 18 month period for a contract of this size. The very earliest if everything goes swimmingly that you will be in your new home will be the start of the 2017 season and the terminolgy 'pre-commencement planning' means your people are having off the record conversations with the authorities. Marty...
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jun 5, 2014 18:55:42 GMT
It seems complicated to me, these 'pre-commencement planning conditions' eg. Is that things like 'there will be no loud machinery working after 5 o'clock' eg? Or 'the area will be guarded by a security firm'? You know,relatively normal things,but if not pre arranged and sorted might lead to problems. Is this it please. The S106 (from 12+ months ago) covered things like construction times (9-5 mon-fri if I remember), and any contract to build a 21000 stadium will have contained clauses about security of the site. They were all arranged months ago... Thanks Big Dave.
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Post by martyhopkirk on Jun 5, 2014 18:55:43 GMT
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eagas
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12
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Post by eagas on Jun 5, 2014 19:05:21 GMT
I would add that a 62 weeks programme is quite ambitious and would assume that there is contigency built in for what barriers or engineering obstacles will emerge during the construction phase.
From working on engineering projects in the water industry I know that the planning process can be a real red tape nightmare with lots of different parties all needing to be satisfied.
In addtion its the services and access to the stadium that all have to be satisfied, electric, gas, water, drainage and so on. open cut tenching of services then re-instatment of roads and access can take weeks, although having a large workforce helps.
I would also add that the stadium will need to be safety tested after completion and there will be a myriad of H&S hurdles to go through before its operating licence is granted.
From what Nick has reported above, it really does look like this stadium will be delivered, although like many other until I am sat in it with the boy watching us I am not getting too excited!
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Alveston Gas
Brucie Bannister
Once a Gashead always a Gashead
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 746
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Post by Alveston Gas on Jun 5, 2014 19:26:26 GMT
However, for now I can tell you that we are in the process of submitting the pre-commencement planning conditions to South Gloucestershire Council to clear the way for work to begin on the site. We are also working on the outstanding items with UWE. As a construction professional 'pre-commencement planning' is not a term I understand. Construction design teams always have unofficial and off the record conversations prior to submission of formal planning permission with the planners and the Local Authority to ascertain were their particular projects sits and what they need to do to tailor it to give it the best chance of success. Once formal planning permission is submitted there are two routes: Delegated powers which a decision can be reached in six weeks or under. Full Council approval which given the size of the project is almost certainly the route your new stadium is faced with and that is a 12 week statutory period for consultation and information gathering is required, before it goes to full Council hearing and public debate before a decision is reached. There are three outcomes from this: - Approved with no conditions (a highly unlikely decision) - Approved with conditions (the most likely outcome) - Rejected outright (unlikely) If rejected one then one goes to appeal, which is a year long process, but the chances of overturning the LA decision is high but introduce a significant delay. If the off the record conversations with the planners are favourable design work and planning continues, whilst the awaiting the formal planning decision. Once a favourable planning decisions has been reached the tender and contract documenets are finalised and the project is sent to tender, which is a four to six month process. On recepiet of the tenders financial checks take place and any value engineering that maybe required on receipt of the tenders is carried out. This is followed by the contractor mobilisation and the contract and build period which will be at least an 18 month period for a contract of this size. The very earliest if everything goes swimmingly that you will be in your new home will be the start of the 2017 season and the terminolgy 'pre-commencement planning' means your people are having off the record conversations with the authorities. Marty... Go away.......!
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Post by thecyclist on Jun 5, 2014 19:45:12 GMT
Big Dave you need to leave this list. You are becoming as cynical as the rest. Nick held up a picture of the UWE (you know, the one DC shows to all new prospects) and you all believe it. But seriously, the new stadium will not start for a while yet, so forget the start of next season. Carstairs put paid to that. Or shall we blame NH because he put Carstairs up to it? As I said earlier it is happening at full spec, but not starting immediately. NH said the summer which I believe runs till about early Sept, so plenty of scope yet. There is much of great interest to come shortly. So get ready to fill your boots. Well that is brilliant that you appear to have a direct line to the board, so can you ask them when those who have got us into this mess are going to leave the club, rather than those who are the innocent victims of the rank incompetence displayed by the decision makers? I'll fill my boots when those responsible for the greatest humiliation suffered by Bristol Rovers since its' formation have gone.
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Post by onedaytheuwe on Jun 5, 2014 19:57:23 GMT
The S106 (from 12+ months ago) covered things like construction times (9-5 mon-fri if I remember), and any contract to build a 21000 stadium will have contained clauses about security of the site. They were all arranged months ago... Thanks Big Dave.
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Post by onedaytheuwe on Jun 5, 2014 20:11:30 GMT
The S106 (from 12+ months ago) covered things like construction times (9-5 mon-fri if I remember), and any contract to build a 21000 stadium will have contained clauses about security of the site. They were all arranged months ago... Thanks Big Dave.
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